Why Can't Conor Mcgregor Defend Edgar's takedowns and Aldo Can?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Fozzybear2386, Jan 21, 2015.

  1. Fozzybear2386

    Fozzybear2386 Yellow Belt

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    It's time for people to recognize that if you're an elite striker and you have physical gifts that include strong hips, and flexibility you dont have to learn everything involved in wrestling to defend a takedown. Connor has is strong in a wierd way he's completely ambidextrous when it comes to the total strength of his body. He seems perfectly balanced, that has to transition to sprawling and td defense. He's certainly a better athlete than Edgar is in terms of output and power. Can Edgar maybe box him up, yes edgar is really fundamental. But I dont see that happening with Conor's boxing pedigree.
    If Jon Jones can Defend a mega elite wrestler's takedowns like Daniel Cormier's and Jose Aldo who has no wrestling background prior to training MMA can stuff Edgar, why wouldnt Conor. Yes Jones is a wrestler, but the skill and experience gap between him and Daniel Cormier isn't much different than the one between Mendes and Aldo or Edgar and Aldo.
    I'm not an Irish fanboy just a NY black guy that boxes and appreciates the sweet science as well as it's applications in MMA which is why I'm not an Edgar hater I'm a fan. I'm just curious about how long it's supposed to take someone of the physical and economic resources that Mcgregor has, to learn adequate takedown defense. He's been in the UFC 2 years, Dana and Lorenzo want him to be a lasting champ. Do you really think he hasn't been spending every off camp session training his wrestling? I wouldnt be surprised if Dana White was giving Conor hookups to the best wrestling coaches. My prediction is after the Aldo fight Mcgregor takes a LONG time off and finishes out his training and rounds out his skills. With the belt he'll take time to master his TD dfense which by every indication is already good. And the haters will keep hating. Yes that prediction includes him knocking Aldo out who I'm also a fan of, in fact I expect leg kicks to be more of a challenge for Mcgregor than TD's. Unfortunately as has been shown before with fighters like Barboza, no matter how good you're kicks are they take longer to pay off than one swift strike to the chin. Aldo is gonna get concussed early and it will follow the same pattern as Dillashaw and Barao.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2015
  2. plekz

    plekz Brown Belt

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    A guy that have already completly torn his ACL once is NEVER going to be a longlasting champ in a sport like MMA.

    never.
     
  3. surgeyou1

    surgeyou1 Welcome to the Machida Era...Part Deux

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    Sure, that was the case in 1965.

    It's 2015. Successful ACL surgeries are pretty common place.
     
  4. Cold Front

    Cold Front Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    I'm sure that's what the UFC thought when they matched up Pettis against Guida, too.

    Notice how they're not making the same mistake with Conor by matching him up against any wrestler who might derail an Aldo/MacGregor title bout.
     
  5. countswagula

    countswagula Gold Belt

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    Conor never fought Edgar, we don't know what the fuck would happen, the best you can hope for is an educated guess. I would've never thought Edgar would maul Cub like he did, and yet it happened.
     
  6. Fozzybear2386

    Fozzybear2386 Yellow Belt

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    Now THAT's a good point. One that I cant deny. That's the price you pay for that dynamism. I think eventually the wear and tear might afect his ability to do some of the flashy movements. However i also think a lot of those movements are overcompensating for his ability to wrestle. he controls the fight with movement, but as his tadedown defense grows and his confidence in just using his hand builds you'll see more of a boxing type of fighter. Once he knocks out aldo. the only question left is his wrestling. Conor learning to wrestle is gonna be a lot easier than all the fw fighters on the roster learning how to box at his level. he wont need flashy kicks and jump roundhouses for Mendes. He'll need his length angles and boxing in combination with td defense. Same for Edgar. I will say if he thinks he has a chance in hell of getting that LW belt from Pettis he's a delusional as Aldo is.
     
  7. plekz

    plekz Brown Belt

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    it's not about successful ACL surgery, it's about the likelyhood of you either reinjuring the same knee or blowing out the other. which is considerably higher then in a person that have never had to have acl surgery done on either knee blowing out theirs.

    yes the ligament joint on a repaired knee is 'stronger' in terms of durability, but the reattachment of the ligament tissue isn't and it also forces the other knee to compensate in terms of stability.
     
  8. yookfarb

    yookfarb Red Belt

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. Scarzi

    Scarzi Blue Belt

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    since when did Edgar have exceptional takedowns? He prob could stuff his takedowns but I would be more worried about Edgar's point striking and his movement.
     
  10. Fozzybear2386

    Fozzybear2386 Yellow Belt

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    I've since edited the statement. But my point was exactly that. It takes time. But I imagine it takes about the same time it did for pettis. The difference is the UFC learned not to bother testing that wrestling in the cage and ruin a money making championship contender. Wrestling is learned in the gym, and it's learned pretty quickly by guys like Pettis. Connor is the fw pettis. Watch what he does to mendes. I think they'll sve Edgar for the last. He's the biggest threat with his boxing. Mendes has good boxing but he's so small and straight forward with his movement even with his improved movement he's still flat footed in comparison to mcgregor, because when he strikes he sits down deep.
     
  11. Dale Denton II

    Dale Denton II Green Belt

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    Because Aldo is a BJJ black belt and a long time Nova Uniao student. Conor.. Well Conor grapples in IRELAND.

    Move on, fellows
     
  12. RockUmSockUm

    RockUmSockUm Black Belt

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    TS thinks if a guy is in shape then he can stop takedowns. Tell that to the numerous diesel punchers in the UFC who lose every ground battle and can't stop a takedown to save their careers. Aldo has perfected takedown defense through skill and training. McG is a novice in comparison.
     
  13. Fozzybear2386

    Fozzybear2386 Yellow Belt

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    Agreed. that's my point. People are talking all about the wrestling cause they dont appreciate or have the ability to appreciate nuanced striking analysis. That's why Jack Slack is an amazing contribution to the game. Edgar matches up poorly in the pure boxing though. He's available for counters cause he throws light jabs and he's orthodox. Conor as a southpaw and a south paw counter puncher at that can smoke Edgar if it stays on the feet too long. He's gonna have to utilize his wrestling and boxing to wear Mcgregor out. Even if he doesnt use the takedowns to hold him down the plan would be to wear mcgregor out till the point that he losses his power and then try to box him up and get a definitive takedown and ride out the decision.
     
  14. Dale Denton II

    Dale Denton II Green Belt

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    Yeah guys think that having good hips for striking means having good hips for grappling. Smh...
     
  15. bibabub

    bibabub Yellow Belt

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    Was never the same after his first surgery and allready had a second acl surgery
     
  16. Fozzybear2386

    Fozzybear2386 Yellow Belt

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    Did I say "if you're in shape" everyone in the UFC is in shape. Im talking about real athletic resources that most athletes dont have. Conor has a natural hip strength and body control that I've only seen in a couple fighters and almost none in MMA. It's BJ Penn like. There are some things he does that people just dont and cant do other than maybe Pettis. Particularly his hips. Dont be fooled GSP didnt come to the UFC as an elite wrestler but he was already impossible to takedown early on. that was the first thing he learned. Mcgregor has that very same athletic ability.
     
  17. dawnignited

    dawnignited Thug Rose, Thug Rose, Thug Rose

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    His takedowns are solid; outside of Aldo he's had little trouble taking down guys at Featherweight if he wants them on the ground. Sure at Lightweight he struggled more to get the takedown, but he was also fighting bigger wrestlers like Maynard and Benson, and of course he took BJ Penn down during a time where people thought his TDD was the best in MMA.
     
  18. plekz

    plekz Brown Belt

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    came back did a couple of defenses 'retired' and promptly after blew out his other knee completly. his ''long lasting'' would have been before he blew out his knee you knit.
     
  19. Fozzybear2386

    Fozzybear2386 Yellow Belt

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    If I started a list of WORLD CLASS bjj black belts that got completely MOPPED by elite wrestlers and even good wrestlers with solid top control in mma it would be a long one. BJJ doesnt necessarily transition to td defense. Aldo's athleticism is what is responsible for that. The guy is a freak, he's also an amazing submission fighter but that in no way pertains to his sprawl and takedown defense. That's from training wrestling and having the athletic IQ to learn and implement quickly the things he learns.
     
  20. RJ43

    RJ43 The Baddy

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    I agree. Frankie is one of my all time favorite fighters but I have very little faith in him being able to defeat Conor. I think Mendes and especially Aldo have better chances.

    So many people want Conor to lose so badly that they are looking for any possible holes in his game. There are people that claim that they believe Clay Guida and Lentz will expose him.

    Others are jaded by seeing other great strikers in MMA be completely nullified by wrestling so they won't believe it until they see it. And since the offensive guard is all but dead in MMA if you don't have elite TDD or scrambling ability you have a huge liability.

    I think the main thing people are missing is that Conor is not someone like Spong or Manhoef who is coming over from K1 or a strict striking background. MMA is not new to him so I really do not believe he is going to be grapple fucked out of the top 5.

    And to what you said he is clearly a physically gifted fighter which goes a long way. He could be a guy like BJ Penn who used his physical gifts and talents to establish great TDD without any real wrestling history to speak of.

    We'll see soon enough. One way or another Conor will be getting a wrestler in whichever fight happens after Aldo. Edgar or Lamas depending on outcomes.
     

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