Why Cain Velasquez was so successful?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by That209, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. That209

    That209 Gold Belt

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    This is a little bit of a long read, so if you don't want to read it just leave the thread now.

    I think Cain's stand-up in this fight has proved a lot of people wrong. He can hang with the best stand-up fighters and still catch them hard and change the fight in his favor. Junior was looking good at the start, he was defending TD's but he wasn't getting any good punches off at all. He was doing good with not letting Cain land any great punches or get him to the mat, but he let Cain's gameplan go the way he wanted it to from the very start.

    Junior is usually the guy who has the center of the cage and pushes the pace and has a good distance from his opponents to use his jab and then get out of range. JDS isn't used to being the guy who is pressured and constantly backing away from his opponent, and he hasn't fought many wrestlers at all on the level of Cain.

    Junior did a great job at defending TD's though, his TDD is amazing but his gas tank couldn't hold up for the entire fight. Of course, getting caught with good punches very early in the fight changes it as well.

    Cain wouldn't let Junior set up his strikes like he normally does, Junior rarely stands in the pocket and exchanges, he moves in from a distance and picks his shots and sets it up very, very well with the jab to the head or body, or a straight right to the body then the left hook he caught Gilbert Yvel with.

    Cain made Junior fight a whole different kind of fight, he isn't normally pressured like this and his opponent isn't always up in his face for more than a couple seconds, Cain was moving forward for 25 minutes and had JDS backing away for most of the fight and Cain cut him off at the fence with TD attempts which also had Junior dropping his hands more than usual which is a perfect way to set up that overhand Cain landed.

    Going into the 2nd round, Junior's corner told him to double up on the jab and throw the uppercut, but Cain countered it perfectly with a 1-2, then Junior couldn't set Cain up very well with the uppercut and made him punch air.

    Junior is a very good counter puncher as well, but I don't think he expected Cain to move forward so much and he didn't give JDS many chances to set anything up.

    This fight may have not looked pretty, like I've seen many call this fight sloppy. Yes, it wasn't crisp combinations from any fighter, but this was the perfect gameplan for Cain to beat Junior Dos Santos and he made Junior work for 25 minutes. He kept the pressure on Junior which he isn't used to, and he drowned him and Cain went on to dominant unanimous decision and Dos Santos didn't have an answer last night.

    Props to Junior, he showed a lot of heart, he didn't give up at all, he was in this fight until the end. Respect him for that, he showed the heart of a champion and he did his best, he just got outclassed by the better fighter last night. That's all. The rubber match will happen, one day. Until then, I still wouldn't know how to call it, but I would still be backing Cain.

    If the 3rd match happens, and Junior can't land that big punch again, I would see another win for Cain, but not just that, if Junior's cardio gets better then expect a much more competitive fight from Junior.

    WAR Cain Velasquez, and WAR Junior Dos Santos. Two of the very best heavyweights in the world.
     
  2. tkotom

    tkotom Fedor belt

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    Junior was blocking punches with his face. Don't really see that as a stand up fight when your hands are by your side. The pace had a lot more to do with it imo and JDS gassed big time, before the punch landed.

    They're both animals though and part 3 will be good if it happens.
     
  3. That209

    That209 Gold Belt

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    Yes, one of the reasons he was blocking a lot with his face is because he was gassed, and because Cain had him cornered at the fence. From there, I don't think Junior knew what to expect. Was it going to be punches? or was Cain going to shoot again? Junior wasn't given a chance to really breathe and reset, he was outworked and couldn't deal with the fast pace.
     
  4. Chubz

    Chubz Red Belt

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    It looked like Cain's furious pace, especially in the first round, really caught him by surprise. You could tell he wasn't prepared for that at all and he just got demolished. I almost wonder if JDS expected something similar to the first fight (despite the fact that Cain said he wanted to push the pace this time) in which Cain had a really slow start and gave him just enough time to set up the perfect KO punch.
     
  5. Prex32

    Prex32 Black Belt

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    why analyzing the later rounds when the fight ended in the first already?
    thats dumb.
     
  6. Emjay

    Emjay And again and again and again and ag.. zzzzzzzz

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    JDS offensive boxing is what got him to where he's at but he's always been hittable.

    Crocop hit him solid, Yvel hit him solid, Roy hit him sold Carwin hit him solid, Mir hit him solid, etc ...
     
  7. That209

    That209 Gold Belt

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    I believe this fight was a unanimous decision, not a finish. Junior had no answer in this fight, but he had 20 more minutes to come up with something and he couldn't.
     
  8. LikeItIs

    LikeItIs Red Belt

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    Ya, something is dumb for sure.

    *points at Prex32*.
     
  9. That209

    That209 Gold Belt

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    Cro Cop landed a few good shots, but his technique was off with his he stepped in with his left. Watching him in PRIDE he was textbook, perfect with it, against Dos Santos he stepped but didn't completely extend his arm like he used to.

    It seems like Junior drops his hands when he's circling away from his opponent when his back is near the cage, like he did when he got tagged by Carwin from a left hand. Of course he's hittable, but he's never been hit like this before. Cain's plan was perfect and kept Junior guessing.
     
  10. SixStringSeal

    SixStringSeal Orange Belt

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    I was saying this before the fight and I'll say it after.

    You can pretty much throw out Cain vs. JDS 1. One punch tells you pretty much nothing about how these fighters really match up in the cage. People will disagree but the results last night speak for themselves.

    That pretty much made this the perfect fight to put some money down on Cain.
     
  11. JayElectra

    JayElectra Paper Belt Banned

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    Cain outboxed him plain and simple early. He jabbed well, cut off space and kept a frenetic pace and JDS wasn't comfortable dealing with any of it. Of course, that crazy pace caused Cain to gas after the second and in the first, JDS was still having some success off the back foot until he was overwhelmed. It should also be noted that Cain actually took JDS's shots quite well (and he did land some shots). It isn't just about having his hands up. He was simply overwhelmed by the pace and skill of Cain. He didn't have the footwork or the craft to deal with someone that fought like Cain did.

    The way I see it, JDS can still certainly win a potential third fight but he has to learn how to deal with the pressure.
     
  12. Trollinator

    Trollinator Green Belt

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    I'm not sure how much of a role the Spider plays in JDS's camp but he could be a massive tool vs Cain.

    JDS will be taken down no doubt in the third bout, but the Spider could be a huge help from the perspective of teaching JDS to relax off his back and conserve energy.

    Eventually the fight will go back to the feet and if JDS keep's his hands up he can end it at any point.

    The problem JDS had was by fearing the takedown, he had no way to win other than a UD because he was purely on defence. With any attempt at a takedown there is an inherent risk to get tagged and JDS threw that out the window instead trying to stuff each time.

    He's gotta go back to his strengths and with hindsight forget about the takedown and instead work on relaxing and using his BJJ of his back.
     
  13. That209

    That209 Gold Belt

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    Exactly. This is like new age Tim Sylvia vs. Andrei Arlovski only Cain and Dos Santos are 100x better and their fights will always be hard to call. You never know what's going to happen. Nobody expected a 64 second KO the first time, nobody expected 25 minutes of domination the 2nd time.
     
  14. InZain

    InZain Orange Belt

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    JDS can't fight backing up. He can only fight coming forward setting the pace. This happens all the time, he can only be a "hammer" not the "nail". Simple as that.

    Cro Cop was the same way. He couldn't fight on the move. He needed to be stationary to throw his high kick and straight left.
     
  15. JayElectra

    JayElectra Paper Belt Banned

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    It is not about keeping his hands up. JDS doesn't fight with a high guard and it wouldn't help him out, anyway. He needs better footwork, a better jab and better head movement. Keeping his hands low is part of the reason why he has such great TDD and keeping his hands up won't make any kind of difference. His defensive problems are movement related.
     
  16. That209

    That209 Gold Belt

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    I'm not sure about Cro Cop, he was very good at moving around and countering with the straight left in PRIDE. In UFC, Cro Cop didn't move the same at all. He was amazing to watch in PRIDE when he was evading and countering, in UFC he was mostly being pushed around.
     
  17. JayElectra

    JayElectra Paper Belt Banned

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    Something that people should realize is that I think Cain can really improve on his performance, as well. He was absolutely gassed by about halfway through the fight. Still, it was a very smart gameplan which must have been incredibly taxing. Gives you appreciation for the likes of Rocky Marciano (who basically came forward at the pace that Cain set in round 1 for 15 rounds, minus the wrestling, of course, but it wasn't primarily the wrestling which gassed Cain, IMO).
     
  18. ufcbrass

    ufcbrass Orange Belt

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    i didn't read it and i didn't leave, so what am i suppose to do now?
     
  19. moreorless87

    moreorless87 Straba

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    Alot of very good points there.

    I'd agree that the key to this fight was that Cain really got in Juniors face in the striking exchanges and didnt allow him to work his typical game.

    I think its interesting to watch JDS's fights pre UFC, yes he was winning most of them but standing agenst opponants who were pushing the pace(like Mondragon) he looked much less impressive.

    In the UFC he exploded onto the scene with that massive KO over Werdum and the blitz of Struve and I think that instantly made everyone respect his power. Ironically in showing him respect though I think they've actually played into his game, it gives him time to setup his big shots, less of an issue with his soemwhat questionable defenece and I think those big looping overhands are much more effective at mid distance(where they sweep a large area and come in at greater angles) just as they were for Chuck.

    JDS to me really didnt seem to have any plan B, no power straight, no knees and no kicks that could have punished Cain as he closed the distance.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012
  20. jban

    jban Black Belt

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    He was successful because he cut less height for this fight (LOL). He was listed at 6 foot 2 for the first time i can recall, when in reality he is probably more like 6 foot, having met him at the Fan Expo in Toronto. Here is a picture of Machida (listed at 6 foot 1, more like 6 foot) next to Cain. I doubt Cain is 6 foot 2 seeing this pic. Cain looked unbelievable, and proved me wrong because i thought JDS would knock him out standing in Round 2 or 3.

    [​IMG]
     

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