"Why Assad's army hasn't defected"

[whougonnacall]

Isnt he fighting rebels in those areas? Again he probably thinking the enemy will co-opt the aid supplies. War is ugly.

dude y ru making excuses for a repellant genocidal dictator?
We know why hes blocking aid as they TELL us why.....'kneel or starve' or 'starvation until submission' are the names of this regieme policy...they arent hiding their intentions there.

 

[whougonnacall]

Sure, but it was like heaven compared to what it is now. And lol at it being 'sectarian apartheid,' it's not a sectarian apartheid even now in the midst of the war ...EXCEPT on the Sunni rebel side, which you don't care about, because you actively support that kind of sectarian apartheid, the kind with the Sunni Arabs on top.

Syria was just like its neighbor, Iraq -- ruled by a brutal dictator, sure, but what he was ruling over was a nightmarish powder keg that all the regional players kept trying to detonate (and continue to try). Remove the dictator, and instead of peace and flowers, you get a hideous religious war. It's not a peaceful benevolent democracy that takes its place, it's Islamic State and al-Nusra. Al-Qaeda is not fighting to create a peaceful democracy in Syria, and if it wins, it's not going to chortle and say 'now we create the friendly, totally non-genocidal Al-Qaeda controlled Syria.'

Also saying only a minority is willing to die for Assad is laughable considering who is willing to die for the rebels .... Sunni jihadi lunatics, jam packed with foreigners, funneled and funded by Turks/Saudis. There's not a professional secular Syrian military fighting back.

You are so concerned with 'ethnic cleansing', but comparing the rebel side of Aleppo to the gov't side of Aleppo, who has actually been cleansed? Go look at the land they actually control, look at the forces actually fighting for them. You want to turn all of Syria into the equivalent of rebel-controlled Aleppo? Or instead into the equivalent of government-controlled Aleppo? It's not a hard choice.

It was a sectarian apartheid pre war and all the denial in the world cant alter that....but in wasting my time with u as the rest of ur post hints you are one of those tards who feel all muslims need is a 'strongman'


Ooh and as for aleppo the goverment force doing all the fighting there is a force of sectarian foriegn fanatics

 

[Rod1]

Hes the one who began using these tactics though long before the rebels did
Not that changes anything....we should bomb him at least til he stops using these tactics,otherwise other tyrants will feel its ok to do the same if they experience uprisings

Assad army isnt the only one keeping the civilians from fleeing such areas. Defenders will also force civilians to stay.

 

[Zankou]

It was a sectarian apartheid pre war and all the denial in the world cant alter that....but in wasting my time with u as the rest of ur post hints you are one of those tards who feel all muslims need is a 'strongman'


Ooh and as for aleppo the goverment force doing all the fighting there is a force of sectarian foriegn fanatics

Again, if the regime-controlled land was a 'sectarian apartheid' pre-war, can you explain why the regime-controlled land is not a sectarian apartheid even now *in the midst of the war*? Look at current divided Aleppo, its regime side and its rebel side. You are saying that the regime side of Aleppo is 'sectarian apartheid' and the rebel side is not 'sectarian apartheid,' despite the fact that the regime side has massive sectarian religious diversity, while the rebel side has been cleansed of everybody except Sunni Arabs and foreign jihadis? How exactly do you reconcile that cognitive dissonance?

Or are you saying it *was* formerly a sectarian apartheid, and that apartheid just magically disappeared, on the regime side, when the war started? Is Damascus currently a sectarian apartheid, in your mind, and how does that compare to the rebel-controlled areas? Say, Idlib?

Nobody's talking abstractions here. It's not a question of "democracy loving Arabs" versus "brutal genocidal dictators." It's a choice between the actual sides that are actually fighting, between actual people. Assad can't be made into a wonderful democrat, and the rebels can't be turned into freedom-loving diversity proponents. They are what they are. You can no more fantasize the rebels into pluralist democrats than you can fantasize Assad into a pluralist democrat. At least with Assad you can retain genuine pluralism (again, mere words are useless on that point, look at the actual territory they actually control), with the rebels you don't even get that.

 

[lfd0311]

Assad's a good guy because his army is diverse?

actual diversity in that part of the world equates to goodness.

 

[whougonnacall]

Assad army isnt the only one keeping the civilians from fleeing such areas. Defenders will also force civilians to stay.

without regime snipers etc eople are free to leave, we literaly saw this as russia carpet bombed aleppo and civillans fled en masse to the turkish border.
The rebels arent stopping anyone leaving these sieges its just assad (as multiple aid agencies have made clear by now) ....in fact thats the entire point of them! ...if the rebels didnt give a fuck about the people in the area there would be no point in targeting the civilans there with starvation, the rebels who cant be beaten with gas, bombings or with assads limited foot can be made sign deals/amnesty so limited aid will get in so they dont have to watch their neighbours eating grass.

 

[whougonnacall]

Again, if the regime-controlled land was a 'sectarian apartheid' pre-war, can you explain why the regime-controlled land is not a sectarian apartheid even now *in the midst of the war*? Look at current divided Aleppo, its regime side and its rebel side. You are saying that the regime side of Aleppo is 'sectarian apartheid' and the rebel side is not 'sectarian apartheid,' despite the fact that the regime side has massive sectarian religious diversity, while the rebel side has been cleansed of everybody except Sunni Arabs and foreign jihadis? How exactly do you reconcile that cognitive dissonance?

Or are you saying it *was* formerly a sectarian apartheid, and that apartheid just magically disappeared, on the regime side, when the war started? Is Damascus currently a sectarian apartheid, in your mind, and how does that compare to the rebel-controlled areas? Say, Idlib?

Nobody's talking abstractions here. It's not a question of "democracy loving Arabs" versus "brutal genocidal dictators." It's a choice between the actual sides that are actually fighting, between actual people. Assad can't be made into a wonderful democrat, and the rebels can't be turned into freedom-loving diversity proponents. They are what they are. You can no more fantasize the rebels into pluralist democrats than you can fantasize Assad into a pluralist democrat. At least with Assad you can retain genuine pluralism (again, mere words are useless on that point, look at the actual territory they actually control), with the rebels you don't even get that.

sorry to stop that entire rant...it IS currently a sectarian apartheid on the regime side
The rebels areas have minorites too as do the rebel ranks....fuck me how stupid do you have to be to not have noticed that? we literaly just saw the russians tear into the turkmen rebels. We have seen minorities run from rebel territories in the face of ISIS advances into them
I mean how stupid do you have to be to not understand the sectarianism is WHY the regime has its manpower issues ...if it wasnt then it would have millions of willing sunnis to call on to shore up its own ranks rather than its current state as utterly reliant on allies, do u think assad likes having gone from independence to irans bitch?


edit report dropped this week interviewing syrians from rebel and regime held territories of almost 2500 people about sectarianism in general.
http://tda-sy.org/beta/wp-content/p...AS.pdf&download=true&print=true&openfile=true

some highlights
-Only 13.6% of all respondents disagreed with the statement: “Sectarian discrimination was a main impediment to the achievement of my most important aspirations”. Almost 94% of Sunnis endorsed the assertion.
-Almost 68% of respondents said one or more sects have benefited from political authority. Nearly all referred to the Alawites and Shiites as the benificiaries.
-More than 70% of respondents said they had been subjected to sectarian discrimination, either personally or through a family member.

 

[Fronk]

More hilarious disinfo from Whougonnacall. Too tiresome to go through it all.

The goverment TRIED to make a deal with the fighters in Maddaya(the city you are talking about) like they did in the nearby city of Zabadani. An evacuation plan for rebels inside and local ceasfire. The defenders refused. The civilians there being basically hostages.

The "report" you dropped by is obviously completely useless in a post-war enviroment. But nice try I guess. That is not mentioning it was done by a pro-rebel organisation. Maybe I should post Assads 88.7% result in the last presidential election as proof of his support in Syria, it is about as useful.

 

[Ruprecht]

The US should have backed the Kurds, not armed the Salafists, if they wanted effective "moderate rebels" in Syria.
Now the Kurds are looking to do deals with the Russians and put more faith in Assad's assurances of semi-autonomy than in any help from the "west".

 

[MicroBrew]

The US should have backed the Kurds, not armed the Salafists, if they wanted effective "moderate rebels" in Syria.
Now the Kurds are looking to do deals with the Russians and put more faith in Assad's assurances of semi-autonomy than in any help from the "west".

The US is overly manipulated by the Turks , Gulf Arabs and their cheerleaders stateside. Turkey being a NATO member presents problems for US policy towards the Kurds.

 

[Ruprecht]

The US is overly manipulated by the Turks , Gulf Arabs and their cheerleaders stateside. Turkey being a NATO member presents problems for US policy towards the Kurds.

Yeah, shifts in Washington are slow, although they do appear to be taking place.
I think everyone recognises that the Kurds are the most reasonable bloc in Syria, so it's telling when they are willing to work with Assad and identify Turkey and IS as the largest regional threat.

 

[Fronk]

Yeah, shifts in Washington are slow, although they do appear to be taking place.
I think everyone recognises that the Kurds are the most reasonable bloc in Syria, so it's telling when they are willing to work with Assad and identify Turkey and IS as the largest regional threat.

I must actually give credit to the US, who are insisting on standing by YPG(Kurds) in Syria despite intense Turkish pressure. Basically Turkey views YPG as a worse threat than ISIS because of its ties with PKK. The SDF(Syrian Democratic Forces) led by YPG is the most interesting project in Syria right now. It's multiethnic unlike anything other not on the goverment side drawing in from the kurds, assyrians and arab tribes of northern and eastern Syria. It actually employs the democratic ideals they stand for in the areas they govern as laid down in the Constitution of Rojava unlike the turkish/gcc backed rebel areas which are ruled by sharia courts. They are not invited to the talks in Geneve. So the only real credible democratic force in Syria is actually being blocked from participating in the peace talks by Turkey, idiotic.

 

[Zankou]

And btw, the war

sorry to stop that entire rant...it IS currently a sectarian apartheid on the regime side
The rebels areas have minorites too as do the rebel ranks....fuck me how stupid do you have to be to not have noticed that? we literaly just saw the russians tear into the turkmen rebels. We have seen minorities run from rebel territories in the face of ISIS advances into them
I mean how stupid do you have to be to not understand the sectarianism is WHY the regime has its manpower issues ...if it wasnt then it would have millions of willing sunnis to call on to shore up its own ranks rather than its current state as utterly reliant on allies, do u think assad likes having gone from independence to irans bitch?


edit report dropped this week interviewing syrians from rebel and regime held territories of almost 2500 people about sectarianism in general.
http://tda-sy.org/beta/wp-content/p...AS.pdf&download=true&print=true&openfile=true

some highlights
-Only 13.6% of all respondents disagreed with the statement: “Sectarian discrimination was a main impediment to the achievement of my most important aspirations”. Almost 94% of Sunnis endorsed the assertion.
-Almost 68% of respondents said one or more sects have benefited from political authority. Nearly all referred to the Alawites and Shiites as the benificiaries.
-More than 70% of respondents said they had been subjected to sectarian discrimination, either personally or through a family member.

Of course the rebels have minorities. In fact they are jam-packed with foreign terrorists. That's not 'sectarian diversity' because the rebels are all of the exact same religious creed, namely radical Sunni jihadi. Nobody except a Sunni jihadi nutjob would fight for the rebels, and so that's precisely who the rebels consist of.

I don't know how you can possibly be so dense. The regime forces currently consist of, and are allied with, (a) Alawites; (b) Sunnis; (c) Shiites; (d) Christians; (e) everybody else. Correct? The rebels are entirely, from top-to-bottom, Sunnis. Correct? That's it. The war is a flat-out battle for Sunni supremacy, in which every non-Sunni religious sect is opposed to them, and huge groups of Sunnis are opposed to them as well. I recognize that, in your view, anything less than total Sunni supremacy over all other sects is 'sectarian apartheid.' Not even the dimmest ray of light penetrates, not even the slightest critical self-examination, to suggest that you think about WHY all the other religious sects are siding with Assad instead of the 'poor oppressed Sunni fanatics, who sadly aren't given the chance to dominate every other religious sect, as the will of Allah dictates should happen. Big tears.'

So when you say 'sectarianism,' of course there is sectarianism, the entire war is about Sunnis battling to establish supremacy over all other religious sects, funded and supported by their Saudi and Turkish allies who are desperate to break the Shiites and Kurds. But when you say 'sectarian apartheid,' that exists entirely on the rebel side.

As for calling up foreigners, let's be real, nobody would be fighting this war at this point EXCEPT FOR THE FOREIGNERS. Over and over you cast stones at the regime ... while completely ignoring the jihadi rebels you love so much. Look, if the 'rebellion' consisted of a wonderful group of freedom-loving, educated, democratic friendly folk who respect and tolerate all religious diversity, then we'd have a different conversation, just as we would have a different conversation if Angela Merkel was running the regime instead of Assad. But those aren't the rebels we have. Instead you are literally exalting Al-Nusra as the answer to the 'sectarian apartheid' of Assad. Constant whining about the regime, and not the slightest acknowledgment or concern about the vicious psychopaths you are supporting against it. Why? Because you simply don't care. Any group fighting Assad, no matter how utterly depraved, is fine. And that, of course, is official Turkish policy in Syria -- they'd call up Hitler himself if he'd help them beat the Kurds and regime down. Genocidal maniacs? That's certainly never been a problem for Turkish foreign policy before, and it's not going to start being a problem now.

 

[Orgasmo]

It was a sectarian apartheid pre war and all the denial in the world cant alter that....but in wasting my time with u as the rest of ur post hints you are one of those tards who feel all muslims need is a 'strongman'


Ooh and as for aleppo the goverment force doing all the fighting there is a force of sectarian foriegn fanatics

Here is a hint. The biggest retard is one that thinks he got it right and everybody else is wrong. Figure out who that guy is yet? Look in the mirror if you need more help determining who that is.

You throwing around the words genocidal, fanatics and sectarian is quite hilarious, since your Sunni "moderate" rebels are exactly those and more. Every region they take from the Syrian government, the minorities there get purged. I think we should donate 100 bucks to Assad every time he wastes a jihadist from your "moderates", aka Al-Qaeda and friends.

 

[whougonnacall]

More hilarious disinfo from Whougonnacall. Too tiresome to go through it all.

The goverment TRIED to make a deal with the fighters in Maddaya(the city you are talking about) like they did in the nearby city of Zabadani. An evacuation plan for rebels inside and local ceasfire. The defenders refused. The civilians there being basically hostages.

The "report" you dropped by is obviously completely useless in a post-war enviroment. But nice try I guess. That is not mentioning it was done by a pro-rebel organisation. Maybe I should post Assads 88.7% result in the last presidential election as proof of his support in Syria, it is about as useful.

dude id try and avoid mentioning bhilarity..u STILL havent admitted being wrong on asseds having manpower issues.....are you EVER gonna hold ur hands up to that one?
There was at least 3 deals rejected (actualy mainly with hezbollah not the goverment forces such as they are), the one you are either misinformed about or lying about is one where the rebels would leave but every last sunni had to leave their homes for good there as well ...big difference in holding people there against their will as everyone is free to try and leave anytime they want....its the goverment snipers etc stopping people who want to leave just up and going


The reports authors admit to therestrictions wartime places on their findings...still they do go into regime held as well as rebel territory , not perfect but a far cry from the made up presidential results.

 

[whougonnacall]

And btw, the war


1)Of course the rebels have minorities. In fact they are jam-packed with foreign terrorists. That's not 'sectarian diversity' because the rebels are all of the exact same religious creed, namely radical Sunni jihadi. Nobody except a Sunni jihadi nutjob would fight for the rebels, and so that's precisely who the rebels consist of.

2)I don't know how you can possibly be so dense. The regime forces currently consist of, and are allied with, (a) Alawites; (b) Sunnis; (c) Shiites; (d) Christians; (e) everybody else. Correct? The rebels are entirely, from top-to-bottom, Sunnis. Correct? That's it. The war is a flat-out battle for Sunni supremacy, in which every non-Sunni religious sect is opposed to them, and huge groups of Sunnis are opposed to them as well. I recognize that, in your view, anything less than total Sunni supremacy over all other sects is 'sectarian apartheid.' Not even the dimmest ray of light penetrates, not even the slightest critical self-examination, to suggest that you think about WHY all the other religious sects are siding with Assad instead of the 'poor oppressed Sunni fanatics, who sadly aren't given the chance to dominate every other religious sect, as the will of Allah dictates should happen. Big tears.'

3)So when you say 'sectarianism,' of course there is sectarianism, the entire war is about Sunnis battling to establish supremacy over all other religious sects, funded and supported by their Saudi and Turkish allies who are desperate to break the Shiites and Kurds. But when you say 'sectarian apartheid,' that exists entirely on the rebel side.

4)As for calling up foreigners, let's be real, nobody would be fighting this war at this point EXCEPT FOR THE FOREIGNERS. Over and over you cast stones at the regime ... while completely ignoring the jihadi rebels you love so much. Look, if the 'rebellion' consisted of a wonderful group of freedom-loving, educated, democratic friendly folk who respect and tolerate all religious diversity, then we'd have a different conversation, just as we would have a different conversation if Angela Merkel was running the regime instead of Assad. But those aren't the rebels we have. Instead you are literally exalting Al-Nusra as the answer to the 'sectarian apartheid' of Assad. Constant whining about the regime, and not the slightest acknowledgment or concern about the vicious psychopaths you are supporting against it. Why? Because you simply don't care. Any group fighting Assad, no matter how utterly depraved, is fine. And that, of course, is official Turkish policy in Syria -- they'd call up Hitler himself if he'd help them beat the Kurds and regime down. Genocidal maniacs? That's certainly never been a problem for Turkish foreign policy before, and it's not going to start being a problem now.

1) dude if you spent like 5 mins to educate yourself on the subject you wouldnt come across so dumb at times, there are rebels of various faiths and as for fanatics bear in mind the regimes offensive force is now uttlery reliant on foriegners whereas the previous truce was condemned by all rebel forces with at least 74 of them being recognised internationaly as NON EXTREMIST.

2) erm no the regime's military (not including unwilling sunni consripts ) almost to a man consists of alawites and foriegn shias with a small smatttering of minorities most of whom have taken weapons from gov to defend their areas but arent actualy useable as a fighting force. nor are the rebels all sunni either
also the other sects arent 'siding with assad either' ..kurds and druze are neutral/for themselves, christians and ismalis are slight pro goverment majority but significant pro rebel leaning
sunnis and turkmen obviously almost pro rebel and shia /alawite being pro regeime.
The rest of this part of your post is fucking hilarious as you seem to be missing the point that the regime is a sectarian apartheid battling so that 7% of the population (alawites) continue to dominate the rest of the sects or they will fuck everything up ''assad or we burn the country''

3)No its about one minority sect battling to remain i utter control of all the others forever or itls turn the country to fucking ash

4)Yeah dude lets pretend forces like the FSA's southern front etc dont exist its jut all al nursra right....those western trained and armed TOW teams must just pop up from the fucking ground

 

[whougonnacall]

Here is a hint. The biggest retard is one that thinks he got it right and everybody else is wrong. Figure out who that guy is yet? Look in the mirror if you need more help determining who that is.

You throwing around the words genocidal, fanatics and sectarian is quite hilarious, since your Sunni "moderate" rebels are exactly those and more. Every region they take from the Syrian government, the minorities there get purged. I think we should donate 100 bucks to Assad every time he wastes a jihadist from your "moderates", aka Al-Qaeda and friends.

dude last time...unrustle those jimmies ........if you have noting to add to a grown up conversation then stfu ok

 

[Zankou]

1) dude if you spent like 5 mins to educate yourself on the subject you wouldnt come across so dumb at times, there are rebels of various faiths and as for fanatics bear in mind the regimes offensive force is now uttlery reliant on foriegners whereas the previous truce was condemned by all rebel forces with at least 74 of them being recognised internationaly as NON EXTREMIST.

2) erm no the regime's military (not including unwilling sunni consripts ) almost to a man consists of alawites and foriegn shias with a small smatttering of minorities most of whom have taken weapons from gov to defend their areas but arent actualy useable as a fighting force. nor are the rebels all sunni either
also the other sects arent 'siding with assad either' ..kurds and druze are neutral/for themselves, christians and ismalis are slight pro goverment majority but significant pro rebel leaning
sunnis and turkmen obviously almost pro rebel and shia /alawite being pro regeime.
The rest of this part of your post is fucking hilarious as you seem to be missing the point that the regime is a sectarian apartheid battling so that 7% of the population (alawites) continue to dominate the rest of the sects or they will fuck everything up ''assad or we burn the country''

3)No its about one minority sect battling to remain i utter control of all the others forever or itls turn the country to fucking ash

4)Yeah dude lets pretend forces like the FSA's southern front etc dont exist its jut all al nursra right....those western trained and armed TOW teams must just pop up from the fucking ground

Saying "rebels of various faiths" is meaningless without identifying these mythical non-Sunni faiths. Who? What faiths? Where are they? Fighting in Al-Nusra? Fighting in the FSA? Where are these legendary Christians, Jews, Alawites, atheists, and Shiites fighting shoulder-to-shoulder as rebels against Assad? The rebels of Aleppo yelling "Allahu Akbar," perhaps they are Jews in disguise? And perhaps you will find the Syrian unicorn for us next, in your mythological ramblings?

Kurds and Druze aren't fighting Assad, but they are fighting your precious rebels (and getting massacred by Al-Nusra, intermittently). Why? Because Sunni Arab-Turk extermination is not an appealing prospect for anybody not Sunni Arab or Turk, and an unappealing prospect for many Sunnis (like the Kurds) as well. Which is why every other faction in Syria is fighting the rebels, including other Sunnis.

Mighty LOLs at a 'slight' Christian leaning towards the regime, but with 'significant pro-rebel leaning.' Christians lean about as much towards the Sunni rebels in Syria as they lean towards Islamic State. The rebels cleansed Homs almost entirely of its Christians. Nobody's confused about the fate of Christians under rebel domination.

Again with the robotic claim of 'sectarian apartheid' ... you don't know what those words mean. I'll chalk it up to inadequate language skills -- since "sectarian" is a long word, and "apartheid" a foreign one. "Apartheid" is Afrikaans, and literally means "apart-hood", i.e. that you separate the sects, keep them apart, segregated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid

Now, using your new-found language comprehension skills, please go look at the *regime* controlled areas of the country, and the *rebel* controlled areas. Ask yourself "where are the sects kept apart"? Then ask yourself "where are they mixed together"? Congratulations! You've successfully identified the sectarian apartheid in Syria! It's in the Sunni rebel lands. Why doesn't that bother you? Because sectarian apartheid doesn't bother you in the slightest -- Sunnis not completely dominating Syria bothers you immensely.

You keep insisting that all of the other sects are somehow -- in hiding! in secret! in heaven! -- on the side of the rebels. Why, then, are they all fighting against the rebels? And why are none fighting Assad with the rebels? At some point your bone-headed inability to address this point is going to have to come to an end.

Last, as to the Southern FSA use of TOWs, of course the West, the Turks, and the Saudis have been pouring and money and arms into the Sunni rebellion. That use of foreign weapons doesn't make them good guys. That's what people have been pointing out from the start, that the rebels exist only because of foreign proxxy interference, as part of an anti-Iranian crusade mounted in Syria by foreign powers. How does their status as foreign proxy combatants establish that they are friendly non-sectarian non-jihadi folk? When pressed, the Southern FSA immediately formed an alliance with Al-Nusra ... in case you'd forgotten their skin-deep 'moderate' status, or how opposed they actually are to Sunni extremism.

http://lb.boell.org/en/2015/08/21/southern-front-allies-without-strategy

 

[Orgasmo]

dude last time...unrustle those jimmies ........if you have noting to add to a grown up conversation then stfu ok

If you define "grown up" discussion as repeating the words "moderate", "Assad sectarian apartheid" and "genocidal tyrant" over and over again to sell your jihadist buddies as the good guys, then I don't have anything to add. The problem is that your idea of "grown up" is as skewered as your definition of "moderate", and almost everyone has previously called you out on it. Keep drinking that Sunni jihadi Koolaid, but don't think everyone else is as stupid.

 

[Fronk]

There is basically no point in ever replying to Whougonnacall but atleast he provides entertainment. Keep it up buddy