Why aren't there wrestling gyms?

[jack36767]

A big thing affecting interest in the US from the bjj crowd from training wrestling comes from long held attitudes and beliefs the bjj community has about wrestling.. that have been expressed here.

The simple fact is. Your average person needs to stop it with the “well I’ll never beat a college wrestler” and the “well you have to be super powerful” whiny ass crap excuses.

If I can get some of the out of shape unathletic first year kids who did nothing during covid into competitive against kids who didn’t stop training..

People who train bjj halfway regularly… can easily and safely learn basic positioning and moves to be competitive wrestling against people of similar experience. And no, you’ll never beat me at wrestling. That’s no excuse for looking like a floppy fish on your feet.

and most wrestling injuries I see in bjj are from floppy garbage attempts at trips and throws instead of getting in a stance and wrestling technically

 

[ChickenBrother]

A big thing affecting interest in the US from the bjj crowd from training wrestling comes from long held attitudes and beliefs the bjj community has about wrestling.. that have been expressed here.

The simple fact is. Your average person needs to stop it with the “well I’ll never beat a college wrestler” and the “well you have to be super powerful” whiny ass crap excuses.

If I can get some of the out of shape unathletic first year kids who did nothing during covid into competitive against kids who didn’t stop training..

People who train bjj halfway regularly… can easily and safely learn basic positioning and moves to be competitive wrestling against people of similar experience. And no, you’ll never beat me at wrestling. That’s no excuse for looking like a floppy fish on your feet.

and most wrestling injuries I see in bjj are from floppy garbage attempts at trips and throws instead of getting in a stance and wrestling technically

Response from 99% of BJJ gyms (including mine) when you say you want to start rolls from the feet: we don't do that because there would be too many injuries from people fighting for TDs.

No shit. If you never go live TDs, your students never learn to intelligently attack OR defend TDs without getting injured.

 

[THEfightsAREfixed]

wrestling is too scary

 

[jack36767]

Response from 99% of BJJ gyms (including mine) when you say you want to start rolls from the feet: we don't do that because there would be too many injuries from people fighting for TDs.

No shit. If you never go live TDs, your students never learn to intelligently attack OR defend TDs without getting injured.

I know people don’t like it when I say this. But I’ve seen it enough to be true. A lot of bjj instructors and practioners would rather just shove wrestling off as the meathead strength sport than be humble and properly learn how to teach and do it

 

[Grappler111]

In France you can see a lot of gyms with freestyle/greco and grappling/"pankration" programs. In summer there is an interesting beach wrestling championship. In Russia there is a strong support of national federation for non Olympic styles like Grappling. All these styles of wrestling are recognised by UWW. In my opinion this is the best model, a gym with Olympic and non Olympic wrestling styles together.

 

[TheMaster]

I feel like wrestlers are so successful in MMA is because they have experience that can only be acquired through high school wrestling, after high school you can't really find any where to get wrestling experience unless you go completely out of your way.


Why can't their be casual wrestling gyms like there are for other combat sports such as boxing, taekwando, muay thai, jiu jitsu, judo, etc??

It's easy for high school/college wrestlers to get striking experience, all they have to do it locate a striking art gym near by.

I think if wrestling was more open to the public it wouldn't be the key to winning MMA fights anymore and people with wrestling bases wouldn't be so hard to defeat.

It's not really fair to be honest, every other art is open to the public but if you want to know wrestling you had to do it in high school/college.

They should open up wrestling gyms around the globe to see what happens to MMA.

Anybody else agree with me?

Do Judo

 

[yetanother]

Do Judo

Judo is trash without a gi. A lot of Judo guys turn into strikers for a reason.

 

[TheMaster]

Judo is trash without a gi. A lot of Judo guys turn into strikers for a reason.

You literally don't know wtf you are talking about

 

[Grappler111]

You literally don't know wtf you are talking about

He is also a wrestler not a pure judoka. He is an example of very successful athlete in judo with Olympic and World championships medals unable to gain a podium at ncca level in wrestling. So...

 

[TheMaster]

He was also a wrestler not a pure judoka. He is an example of very successful athlete in judo with Olympic and World championships medals unable to gain a podium at ncca level in wrestling. So...

So, it's a different sport. He more than held his own in elite level wrestling.

 

[Grappler111]

"" elite""

 

[jack36767]

So, it's a different sport. He more than held his own in elite level wrestling.

Define elite. Because what amuses me the most about the non wrestling martial arts community is how they look at solid but not elite former wrestlers as elite because they can’t heat them in a roll right away

 

[TheMaster]

Define elite. Because what amuses me the most about the non wrestling martial arts community is how they look at solid but not elite former wrestlers as elite because they can’t heat them in a roll right away

What amuses me about the wrestling martial arts community is they had to learn Judo (BJJ) submissions to even be in the conversation.

In terms of wrestling, college NCAA is probably borderline elite level. World and Olympic is elite.

 

[jack36767]

What amuses me about the wrestling martial arts community is they had to learn Judo (BJJ) submissions to even be in the conversation.

In terms of wrestling, college NCAA is probably borderline elite level. World and Olympic is elite.

So your “example” was a low AA who wrestled in high school.. I’m the 80s.. could you please give more than one example?

Especially since that one example can have a lot of his success attributed to good hips/athleticism and body length.. the reach back stuff he got away with are nothing new and I highly doubt not freak athlete judoka are going to be hitting that move on serious high school kids.

I’m well aware of the excuse, ahem, “arguments” Judi people make for why they aren’t in the conversation more.

Thing is. Pretty much all the “Judo” athletes in MMA seem to run into brick walls when their opponent actually has a competent level of wrestling and striking. I used to be more amenable to the judo “reasons” for not more success.. but I keep seeing the recurring pattern of only doing well against grapplers clueless on their feet

 

[Zanderlini]

A lot of MMA gyms have a wrestling class these days. Thought by an actual wrestler with typically some MMA or jiu jitsu experience. As a self defense thing wrestling is super important but also obviously very specific therefor a little limited.

 

[RabbitPunch36]

@jack36767 what type of things should I look for in a wrestling club or instructor to get the most out of it as an adult that has never wrestled? Lets assume I'll be there about 2 times a week for 1-1.5 hours a session. And how should I approach training to get the most out it?

 

[jack36767]

@jack36767 what type of things should I look for in a wrestling club or instructor to get the most out of it as an adult that has never wrestled? Lets assume I'll be there about 2 times a week for 1-1.5 hours a session. And how should I approach training to get the most out it?

Someone focusing on getting you competent at holding positions and is willing to teach non shot technique

 

[RabbitPunch36]

Someone focusing on getting you competent at holding positions and is willing to teach non shot technique

I'm not quite understanding do you mean they would get me good at holding underhooks and overhooks? And by non shot techniques do you mean like getting good at defensive wrestling and learning stuff like arm drags and clinching.

Sorry I'm a bit new to grappling and I know more about specific techniques than the actual core esscense of wrestling. So should I try to focus more on getting good at the fundamentals of wrestling over learning specific go to moves (by the way what do you consider the fundamentals of wrestling and grappling)?

 

[rmongler]

(by the way what do you consider the fundamentals of wrestling and grappling)?

The same thing that's fundamental to any athletic activity: physical literacy.

Before you can even begin to follow advice to do one thing or another, before questions of game or strategy or procedures can even make a difference in outcomes one way or another, one needs to be able to conduct their movement within the given context in the first place. Their ability to sense, control, and coordinate movement, with greater refinement, within a given context.

Or perhaps to put it shortly, the first recommendation is always just, 'trane moar'.

 

[RabbitPunch36]

The same thing that's fundamental to any athletic activity: physical literacy.

Before you can even begin to follow advice to do one thing or another, before questions of game or strategy or procedures can even make a difference in outcomes one way or another, one needs to be able to conduct their movement within the given context in the first place. Their ability to sense, control, and coordinate movement, with greater refinement, within a given context.

Or perhaps to put it shortly, the first recommendation is always just, 'trane moar'.

I know that but I was thinking more in line what apsects are fundamental to a good strong base that allows you to not be taken down and be in position to take down others. Or what are necessary broad skills to take down and control an opponent is it breaking their posture (greco roman), getting better leverage on them/ underneath them, or getting around themand attacking at an angle with better footwork (what is good footwork in context of wrestling)?

For instance in boxing some things that are fundamental to having a good stance that keeps you from getting hit more than necessary like keeping your head off the centerline, and staying at an angle to minimize surface area to be hit, keeping your weighted shifted more towards the back foot to maximize distance from opponents hands (and give more time to react), etc. So there has to be similar stuff for wrestling and grappling in general.