Opinion Why are we talking about left vs right in the XXI century?

[Rod1]

The difference in my taxes between Bernie and Trump for 4 years would be significant, and I wouldn't see any benefit.

The main difference i see is that Dems tend to look out for the financial viability of their plans, meanwhile Republicans go yeehaw with the budget.

 

[rob mafia]

The OP was asking why "Medicare for all" isn't mocked as a Stalinist proposition. Being in favor of universal healthcare isn't a radical Stalinist position. Being against "medicare for all" would be radical and you would be laughed out of office in any other wealthy country except the US.

you misread.

OP was complaining that the lefties don't defend bernie with mocking "literally stalin" in the way right-wingers defend trump by mocking "literally hitler," while being too ignorant to realize the question is answered by the lack of "literally stalin" attacks, which is a pre-req.

 

[nostradumbass]

"Literally Hitler" is rarely, if ever, used seriously against Trump since its obviously impossible. That's the meme the right came up with to make fun of the comparison between Trump and fascists. Comparing the American left to radical socialists is basically the same thing. I understand you'll make an effort not to understand the point despite how simple and clear it is but that's what we've all come to expect of you.

Bruh, about 1,000 blue checkmarks have actually said "literally Hitler", Chris Matthews called his inauguration speech "Hitlerian", CNN has called him Hitler about 400 times, calling migrants detention centers "concentration camps" is like a mainstream thing now, and these are just mainstream outlets and politicians, not just the fringes.

 

[nostradumbass]

The main difference i see is that Dems tend to look out for the financial viability of their plans, meanwhile Republicans go yeehaw with the budget.

Not really.

I do think Trump is spending more than he should, but a lot of that is concessions to house democrats and his own spending proposals are still lower than any democrat running. For me personally, the debt has been skyrocketing my entire adult life, so I can only talk about my own tax rates and what benefits I see for higher taxes, and that is 0 additional benefits for paying 10s of thousands more in taxes.

 

[Islam Imamate]

HURR DURR

hence, why i said NO ONE'S REFUTING IT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST. and why i referred to it as strawman.

OP is LITERALLY asking why lefties aren't mocking "literally stalin," which answers itself - there is no/never was any widespread "literally stalin" complaints to mock/refute. it's straw.

and yet, OP then argued this. and you championed it. and, unsurprisingly, neither of you could produce evidence of masses saying this. which is why you geniuses decided to post irrelevant bullshit (also strawman), instead - while pretending it's the same (false equivalency) - and hilariously - often changing the criteria/terms, themselves (moved goalposts).

if no one's saying "literally stalin," what the fuck are you even complaining about, "numb nuts?" DERP

Obama was compared to Stalin more than once despite being a fairly moderate politician. So even though the initial claim was not predicated on anyone calling a left politician "literally Stalin" there are in fact many instance of right wingers comparing left wing politicians to Stalin and Hitler. But I'm sure you'll move the goalposts in such a wya that this doesn't count.

Bruh, about 1,000 blue checkmarks have actually said "literally Hitler", Chris Matthews called his inauguration speech "Hitlerian", CNN has called him Hitler about 400 times, calling migrants detention centers "concentration camps" is like a mainstream thing now, and these are just mainstream outlets and politicians, not just the fringes.

Calling him "Literally Hitler" is usually done facetiously since he's obviously can't be literally Hitler. Do people compare Trump to Hitler and other fascists though? Sure but left wing politicians also get compared to radical elements on the left like communists and authoritarian socialists. And of course Obama was himself compared to Hitler countless times before Trump ever was.

 

[gilbert_mma]

...it has one of the highest GDPs. in other words,

India is ranked #5 on nominal GDP (they also have almost 1.4 billion people, "sharing" that). If Africa were to unite as one nation tomorrow their GDP would rank #10, higher than Australia, Norway, Switzerland and Canada etc. Does that mean that Africa would be more developed than these countries? This isn't very hard to grasp.

 

[rob mafia]

Obama was compared to Stalin more than once despite being a fairly moderate politician. So even though the initial claim was not predicated on anyone calling a left politician "literally Stalin" there are in fact many instance of right wingers comparing left wing politicians to Stalin and Hitler. But I'm sure you'll move the goalposts in such a wya that this doesn't count.

dat hypocrisy. you cite your own fallacy and then accuse me of making one in the future.

Calling him "Literally Hitler" is usually done facetiously since he's obviously can't be literally Hitler. Do people compare Trump to Hitler and other fascists though? Sure but left wing politicians also get compared to radical elements on the left like communists and authoritarian socialists. And of course Obama was himself compared to Hitler countless times before Trump ever was.

you're now DESCRIBING the fallacy.

the biggest irony in all of this is that the only people in this thread equating communism, socialism, and etc to "literally stalin" are you and OP.

 

[rob mafia]

India is ranked #5 on nominal GDP (they also have almost 1.4 billion people, "sharing" that). If Africa were to unite as one nation tomorrow their GDP would rank #10, higher than Australia, Norway, Switzerland and Canada etc. Does that mean that Africa would be more developed than these countries? This isn't very hard to grasp.

...you're backpedaling all the way to some "what if" scenario involving the entire continent of africa? like, REALLY?

great argument! /s "what ifs" are crap to begin with, and even moreso when you take it to extremes and reductio ad absurdum your own dumb point (attempt). lolz @ hard to grasp, when making such a stupid blunder.

 

[freakroor]

because we lack unity. people need to learn to compromise and work for the greater good of all humans.

 

[gilbert_mma]

...you're backpedaling all the way to some "what if" scenario involving the entire continent of africa? like, REALLY?

great argument! /s "what ifs" are crap to begin with, and even moreso when you take it to extremes and reductio ad absurdum your own dumb point (attempt). lolz @ hard to grasp, when making such a stupid blunder.

My point is that GDP is a useless metric to determent development if you don't consider population size. The average westerner has 20-30x the income of the average Indian. In terms of development India ranks significantly below Iraq and just above Guatemala and Bangladesh (slightly above Zimbabwe).

 

[nostradumbass]

Obama was compared to Stalin more than once despite being a fairly moderate politician. So even though the initial claim was not predicated on anyone calling a left politician "literally Stalin" there are in fact many instance of right wingers comparing left wing politicians to Stalin and Hitler. But I'm sure you'll move the goalposts in such a wya that this doesn't count.

Calling him "Literally Hitler" is usually done facetiously since he's obviously can't be literally Hitler. Do people compare Trump to Hitler and other fascists though? Sure but left wing politicians also get compared to radical elements on the left like communists and authoritarian socialists. And of course Obama was himself compared to Hitler countless times before Trump ever was.

It's been a joke for like 20 years that people say "literally" where it doesn't apply. Every republican nominee and organization since 1950 has been compared to nazis and fascists, but it's the volume of nazi accusations that have become comical. I can only go through 1 at a time, but I don't know that there is a single left wing media outlet in existence that hasn't run a piece calling Trump Hitler.


https://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/ex...between-trump-and-hitlers-propaganda-tactics/

https://www.cracked.com/blog/why-comparing-donald-trump-to-hitler-makes-perfect-sense/

https://www.politicususa.com/2014/02/23/republicans-compared-nazis-stop-acting-nazis.html

 

[rob mafia]

My point is that GDP is a useless metric to determent development if you don't consider population size. The average westerner has 20-30x the income of the average Indian. In terms of development India ranks significantly below Iraq and just above Guatemala and Bangladesh (slightly above Zimbabwe).

...i was using gdp ppp when i cited india as #3. it was an attempt to trap, admittedly... in hoping you'd call the #3 rank into question (vs ~5ish, where nominal gdp would place it). but now you walked into it in a different manner.

 

[Islam Imamate]

It's been a joke for like 20 years that people say "literally" where it doesn't apply. Every republican nominee and organization since 1950 has been compared to nazis and fascists, but it's the volume of nazi accusations that have become comical. I can only go through 1 at a time, but I don't know that there is a single left wing media outlet in existence that hasn't run a piece calling Trump Hitler.


https://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/ex...between-trump-and-hitlers-propaganda-tactics/

https://www.cracked.com/blog/why-comparing-donald-trump-to-hitler-makes-perfect-sense/

https://www.politicususa.com/2014/02/23/republicans-compared-nazis-stop-acting-nazis.html

I'm not denying that, I'm saying the right does the same thing not only in that they'll also use comparisons to Hitler but in that they'll also compare left wing politicians to elements of the radical left. Someone like Sanders is one thing given his historic sympathies with socialist states and the fact that he calls himself a socialist but even Obama was labeled a socialist despite being fairly moderate.

 

[gilbert_mma]

...i was using gdp ppp when i cited india as #3. it was an attempt to trap, admittedly... in hoping you'd call the #3 rank into question (vs ~5ish, where nominal gdp would place it). but now you walked into it in a different manner.

Ahh ic. I will admit that GDP PPP is generaly abit more relevant for what we are talking about than nominal GDP. Still it becomes useless if you don't factor in population size. If we go by GDP PPP per capita India is below El Salvador and a little bit above Angola. We have gotten abit of topic here i feel. I think we can end the discussion by agreeing that India is not a developed counrty.

 

[nostradumbass]

I'm not denying that, I'm saying the right does the same thing not only in that they'll also use comparisons to Hitler but in that they'll also compare left wing politicians to elements of the radical left. Someone like Sanders is one thing given his historic sympathies with socialist states and the fact that he calls himself a socialist but even Obama was labeled a socialist despite being fairly moderate.

They probably do to a way lesser extent. Obama has way more ties to Marxists than Trump has to nazis though, and it doesn't help that the same party that Obama ran under and got his votes from have now called themselves anti-capitalist and are totally splintered.

 

[Rod1]

Not really.

Yes, really, the last time America had a surplus was under Clinton

I do think Trump is spending more than he should, but a lot of that is concessions to house democrats and his own spending proposals are still lower than any democrat running.

No, a lot of it is tax rich to the ultra-wealthy, increases in military spending and the ever growing mandatory spending that its medicare, medicaid and SS.

For me personally, the debt has been skyrocketing my entire adult life, so I can only talk about my own tax rates and what benefits I see for higher taxes, and that is 0 additional benefits for paying 10s of thousands more in taxes.

Which is why republicans never cut spending, only taxes and create unsustainable fiscal plans, we call that populism where i am from.

 

[PubliusVentidius]

Sometimes I read the comments under Bernie's tweets and it's like staring into the Nietzschean abyss; the most laughable red scare all over the place, full of boomers with ''oh you want universal healthcare and affordable housing? you know that Stalin killed 100 trillion people?''. Although I have to say that so far Bernie has not yet faced the level of dishonest smear in the press that Corbyn had to go thru with the british press:

And just for the lulz: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5gj5y8/chairman-mao-corbyn-bike-475

This is what you get when your press is mainly owned by billionaires and fully devoted to protect their class interests.