Opinion Why are we talking about left vs right in the XXI century?

[Trotsky]

Because it's still the best way of understanding politics.

Yes, if a political environment exists in which both sides contains elements of both left and right, such as with Stalinism, whereby the nominal left adopts right-wing policies of both social (nationalism, suppression of women's rights, scapegoating, press suppression, contravening due process) and organizational (demanding rigid party loyalty, centralizing political authority) variety, it may be appropriate to try to move the conversation away from a left/right discussion to prompt a more accurate, clear, or honest critique. But that's only because one side has monopolized a concept and distorted its meaning. It would be the same if a right-wing party or figure came into power and started bulldozing national identity and traditions in the name of progress and handing out voting rights to commoners and disparaging conservative resistance as left-wing subterfuge.

I understand your previous argument of liberalism vs. authoritarianism being the more meaningful continuum than left vs. right, but I think that's pretty silly, frankly, given what we've seen over the past century: that power accumulated according to a supposedly free system will inevitably be used to skew that system in its favor. And under a liberal-federalist system of government, such as it seems you would be most comfortable with, the collective good is continually undercut in favor of individual gains at the topic (for an example, see how remarkably unequal and hostile to the public good the Lochner era was, where meaningful policy was only achievable to the extent that the alternative was not-at-all profitable, lest a race to the bottom starts).

"Literally Hitler" is rarely, if ever, used seriously against Trump since its obviously impossible. That's the meme the right came up with to make fun of the comparison between Trump and fascists. Comparing the American left to radical socialists is basically the same thing. I understand you'll make an effort not to understand the point despite how simple and clear it is but that's what we've all come to expect of you.

[left-wing poster makes reasoned comparison between Trump and Hitler in terms of ideology, history, and policy]

Right-winger: lololol these libtards think he's literally Hitler he's not even German!

 

[Danger Dave]

I mean in my country the left is the populist one, so they use exactly the same tactics used by the right in America to a degree that we basically recycle the same Trump memes and simply change the name to our president, and the supporters use the same arguments to ridicule and deflect any criticism.

Yet, somehow opposition seems either unable or unwilling to stoop down to their level or use the same tactics.

One that stands out is how they ridicule the notion of the dangers against democracy that populism poses by using hyperbole comparisons of Trump with authoritarian populists leads to "Trump is literally Hitler" ridiculization, yet they use the same tactics when criticizing the leftist politicians like Sanders or AOC comparing them to authoritarian marxist-leninist regimes.

So where is the "literally Stalin" ridiculization when it comes to defending Sanders or policies like medicare for all?

im a republican but i really dont care if people are gay or get abortions and stuff. I gotta choose a side though. im also catholic, orthodox, and might be a little jewish.

 

[Xuh]

Because it's much easier to lump anyone you disagree with into a binary 'other' group and hurl insults at them, than it is to consider each element of their worldview on its own merits.

I can understand why mass-level internet politic 'debates' sink to this LCD level but it's too bad that even 'serious' textbooks continue to perpitrate the terms. Ought to be an effort to discard them IMO.

 

[rob mafia]

"Literally Hitler" is rarely, if ever, used seriously against Trump since its obviously impossible. That's the meme the right came up with

wow.

your ignorance on this is astounding. no, "literally hitler" came from a horde of lefty retards on twitter.

hence, pre-req.

hence, mocking.

to make fun of the comparison between Trump and fascists. Comparing the American left to radical socialists is basically the same thing. I understand you'll make an effort not to understand the point despite how simple and clear it is but that's what we've all come to expect of you.

let me get this straight - because you and OP are too willfully ignorant/stupid to understand the origin of "literally hitler," you're INTENTIONALLY moving goalposts for a false equivalency on a position that's... strawman, anyway?

my god. the amount of HURR DURR involved in this. you act as if:

1. "literally stalin" was some sort of mass slogan
2. "literally stalin," communism, and socialism are all equivalent

and that's BEFORE all the other stupid shit gets taken into account.

 

[Rod1]

"literally hitler" is said mockingly because hordes of retards ACTUALLY accused trump of being "literally hitler."

And hordes of retards actually call Sanders a hardcore marxist.

 

[Rod1]

let me get this straight - because you and OP are too willfully ignorant/stupid to understand the origin of "literally hitler," you're INTENTIONALLY moving goalposts for a false equivalency on a position that's... strawman, anyway?

Are you autistic or some shit? nobody is saying to use "literally stalin" it was merely an example of hyperbolic mocking of hyperbolic accusations.

 

[all caps]

"Literally Hitler" is rarely, if ever, used seriously against Trump since its obviously impossible. That's the meme the right came up with to make fun of the comparison between Trump and fascists. Comparing the American left to radical socialists is basically the same thing. I understand you'll make an effort not to understand the point despite how simple and clear it is but that's what we've all come to expect of you.

wow.

your ignorance on this is astounding. no, "literally hitler" came from a horde of lefty retards on twitter.

hence, pre-req.

hence, mocking.





let me get this straight - because you and OP are too willfully ignorant/stupid to understand the origin of "literally hitler," you're INTENTIONALLY moving goalposts for a false equivalency on a position that's... strawman, anyway?

my god. the amount of HURR DURR involved in this. you act as if:

1. "literally stalin" was some sort of mass slogan
2. "literally stalin," communism, and socialism are all equivalent

and that's BEFORE all the other stupid shit gets taken into account.

^^ This is why we are talking about left v right in the xxi century @Rod1

We may actually learn a little something about the reality of our existence if we didnt have worthless shit to argue about and we just cant have that

 

[rob mafia]

And hordes of retards actually call Sanders a hardcore marxist.

you moved your own goalpost... again?

holy shit. idiocy of this magnitude...

 

[Islam Imamate]

wow.

your ignorance on this is astounding. no, "literally hitler" came from a horde of lefty retards on twitter.

hence, pre-req.

hence, mocking.





let me get this straight - because you and OP are too willfully ignorant/stupid to understand the origin of "literally hitler," you're INTENTIONALLY moving goalposts for a false equivalency on a position that's... strawman, anyway?

my god. the amount of HURR DURR involved in this. you act as if:

1. "literally stalin" was some sort of mass slogan
2. "literally stalin," communism, and socialism are all equivalent

and that's BEFORE all the other stupid shit gets taken into account.

"Literally Hitler" actually came from right wing morons comparing Obama to Hitler.

But again I expect you'll find some way to miss the point.

 

[rob mafia]

Are you autistic or some shit? nobody is saying to use "literally stalin" it was merely an example of hyperbolic mocking of hyperbolic accusations.

are YOU stupid or some shit? because you literally just described a strawman fallacy, while apparently trying to argue that it's not strawman like i already said.

 

[rob mafia]

"Literally Hitler" actually came from right wing morons comparing Obama to Hitler.

But again I expect you'll find some way to miss the point.

"literally hitler" was not even said in this video, genius.

unlike one of 84368 examples here:

 

[Rod1]

And under a liberal-federalist system of government, such as it seems you would be most comfortable with, the collective good is continually undercut in favor of individual gains at the topic

Really? explain the nordic states then.

The problem with democracy isnt the system, its the voter.

 

[Rod1]

are YOU stupid or some shit? because you literally just described a strawman fallacy, while apparently trying to argue that it's not strawman like i already said.

If you want to get super anal here is it.

 

[TheOldMan]

@Kafir-kun

Since you wouldn't reply now I can see you were trying to twist what I said in an effort to shield yourself from @rob mafia taking you to task.
Double fail on your part and at this point you should probably check out of this one.

 

[rob mafia]

If you want to get super anal here is it.

literally no one in this video said "literally stalin."

although, i don't even know why you posted this, after you moved your own goalposts/false equivalencies repeatedly. you ran from the very point you're trying to prove (while still failing, of course).

 

[nostradumbass]

There aren't a bunch of "literally Stalin" claims to ridicule. In fact, we really don't learn very much at all about communist atrocities in school, and I'd guess about 95% of Americans couldn't identify Joseph Stalin in a lineup.

"Trump is literally Hitler" is just them picking the only historical villain they know, and 100% of the people who say it don't know anything about it other than the holocaust anyway, and there are 0 similar policies, and Trump does not have people working for his campaign who praise the nazi party. Bernie actually has multiple campaign employees saying gulags were good, took his honeymoon in USSR, has praised USSR, Cuba, and Venezuela. Trump doesn't have a bunch of staffers who think nazi germany was a really great idea.

I don't even mind Bernie's "medicare for all" plan if it was only that, but it's not. Medicare for all has a lot of drawbacks that he won't admit to, but it's whatever. It's the fact that it comes with all the other shit he wants to fund. The difference in my taxes between Bernie and Trump for 4 years would be significant, and I wouldn't see any benefit.

 

[Rod1]

literally no one in this video said "literally stalin."

Ok you decided to be super anal, go ahead with your life.

 

[Islam Imamate]

"literally hitler" was not even said in this video, genius.

unlike one of 84368 examples here:

He's using it facetiously.

But if you want a literal example of someone calling Obama literally Hitler then here you go. That's a full four years before Trump even got elected.

@Kafir-kun

Since you wouldn't reply now I can see you were trying to twist what I said in an effort to shield yourself from @rob mafia taking you to task.
Double fail on your part and at this point you should probably check out of this one.

How was I twisting what you said? I just quoted you in your own words.

 

[gilbert_mma]

Trump is an authoritarian at his core, his best pals in the international community is Putin, Deuterte, Kim Jong-Un and Erdogan. He has praised all of them as strong leaders (even writing love letters to the North Korean dictator, who is arguably the worst despot in the world today). He even called Kim Jong-Un an extremely talentent leader (only one in ten thousand could oppress their poeple as well as he has according to Trump). Medicare for all is not a Stalinist or Maoist proposition, every developed country on earth, except the US, has a univeral healthcare system.

 

[rob mafia]

Ok you decided to be super anal, go ahead with your life.

it was LITERALLY your claim.