Why are people so "anti other grappling arts"?

[jack36767]

First time making my own thread: Longtime lurker asides from a few thread replies

I'm really curious why some people are so anti cross training or giving credit to other grappling arts? Like when Dave Camarillo or Firas Zahabi talked about how bjj could benefit from adding in Judo or wrestling style mentality to their techniques. A lot of people flipped out and got mad and argued to the point of ridiculousness IMO. Or like why are people so dismissive of other styles like the only reasons wrestlers win is because of athleticism and/or the current rules, and/or the "feeder program" of high schools and colleges. and nothing else.

I'm a college wrestler about to graduate and a three stripe white belt who can relatively hold my own with the purple belts I've rolled with gi and nogi. I am not "athletic" at all. To me grappling is grappling. And each style has distinct advantages that it can give.

For example: Jiu-Jitsu taught me how to breath and be a lot more relaxed and not tensed up all the time, even when wrestling. Wrestling and Judo can teach you how to scramble, have good pressure and how to stay in position and execute while tired. And the importance of drilling

TLDR: Why is there such tribalism for ONE style being the "absolute" superior one? Instead of just taking the benefits of what each style has to offer?

 

[RJ Green]

politics man. some people think we're all in this together, some think we're only in this for ourselves.

people think they need tribes. certain tribes tend to get very exclusive and elitist.

it's the ol' appeal to antiquity. 'i don't need facts, so-and-so told me so.'

and people will always err on the side of self-preservation. admitting you're not the best isn't very lucrative.

it's shitty. it's shitty and it drives too many people away.

 

[lechien]

Because it is about the money.

 

[Ckaa]

You have to do

 

[SFCFighter]

There's a lot of dumb mythology about BJJ and a lot of people buy into it

A lot of people are just too competitive about gym rolls and will make an excuse if they lose to a wrestler or get annoyed about the pressure wrestlers use because it makes them uncomfortable

I hate wrestling BJJ guys because they just slap your hands away and run backwards, but I think that is a more legitimate beef than BJJ guys disliking wrestlers because they go too hard or use athleticism or scrambling instead of shrimping and hip escapes and closed guard.

 

[jack36767]

There's a lot of dumb mythology about BJJ and a lot of people buy into it

A lot of people are just too competitive about gym rolls and will make an excuse if they lose to a wrestler or get annoyed about the pressure wrestlers use because it makes them uncomfortable

I hate wrestling BJJ guys because they just slap your hands away and run backwards, but I think that is a more legitimate beef than BJJ guys disliking wrestlers because they go too hard or use athleticism or scrambling instead of shrimping and hip escapes and closed guard.

Yeah this is something I have observed as well. I think the fact that probably a majority of bjj guys don't compete in tournaments makes guys not recognize "practice as practice" where it doesn't matter if you get caught or beat as long as you're getting better or training hard. I've noticed that the bjj guys who seem to have competed more regularly, even if they haven't done wrestling or Judo. Are much more positive about things like - pressure, drilling, and pushing yourself to the point you have to learn how to execute and/or stay in position while tired.

One thing that has personally bothered me is a lot of guys ONLY want to "flow" or "slow roll" or whatever you want to call it. I'll be the first to say there's a place for that. But sometimes it's time to go LIVE and have two guys do their best to beat each other and keep dominate position, then slap hands when you're done. I honestly think at least some of this mentality is not wanting to actually "lose" in practice.

And before anyone says anything about age or bjj being a hobby. I'm an advocate of both "flowing" and live. Just not people who try to only do that so they can tell a guy to not keep dominate position

 

[Ckaa]

"One thing that has personally bothered me is a lot of guys ONLY want to "flow" or "slow roll" or whatever you want to call it. I'll be the first to say there's a place for that. But sometimes it's time to go LIVE and have two guys do their best to beat each other and keep dominate position, then slap hands when you're done. I honestly think at least some of this mentality is not wanting to actually "lose" in practice."

Seriously, where do you guys are finding these sparring "flow roll" partners?!
Every guy I have ever rolled with are bjj djihadists who don't know anything else than going balls out in sparring.

Flow roll is fini as a warmup but it never stays cool for more than a few minutes.

Maybe the "judo" mentality we have here, I don't know... but I'm always surprised when I see guys talking about the "light rolls" in bjj where in my experience it has always be kill or be killed.

I've done a lot a kick boxing in the past and in my experience bjj guys spar a lot harder than strikers...

 

[Pro Killer]

I think we are getting a little off topic here on the flow rolling and stuff as that is more of a mentality than influence of other styles.

I'm only a blue belt myself but fight MMA too and we train our Jiu Jitsu at a high intensity from the MMA/Wrestling influence I guess, and I think it helps.

I've tapped higher level belts from other gyms who come in to roll and it's simply because of intensity, He said to our coach afterwards that he's never seen anyone he trains like we do....... and he's not the first person I've heard say that.

I personally love training like that as In a real self defence situation your going to go all out aren't you so why wouldn't you want to train like that. Drilling is important obviously but theres a place for live rolling too.

In terms of influences from other arts and why people are so against it I think a lot of people are insecure and need to belong in BJJ, so they want to see themselves as 100% BJJ and part of a community.
Personally I believe it's beneficial to cross train somewhat, I've beat better technical BJJ guys by using my Wrestling against them, and better Wrestlers using BJJ.

 

[Kaffe]

I actually have lots of trouble with some guys in BJJ clubs I attend not liking my judo/wrestling mentality of physical commitment to the technique. It gets me that "You're too strong, fast and sexy!" (Ok, maybe not that last one) comment a lot. It pisses me a bit off, as I drill the hell out of my moves, and focus a lot on proper technique, only for some tard blue belt to try writing off getting creamed because I'm this supposed physical freak.

That being said, I love BJJ just as much as I love judo, and without the BJJ training, I wouldn't have 1/4 of the newaza skills I have.

 

[Calibur]

Humans create cliques. </thread>

 

[Bayonet]

Too many people try to define themselves by their hobbies. They form a cult like attachment to their MA 'community' and scrape up whatever bits of personality they can find from within it. If a random stranger on the internet doesn't admit their style is the 'best', then they perceive it as a direct attack on their self-worth. Then they get butt-flustered and feel as if they have to go to war.

There seems to a be a high correlation of this with Instagram and Tumblr usage.

 

[jack36767]

I think we are getting a little off topic here on the flow rolling and stuff as that is more of a mentality than influence of other styles.

I'm only a blue belt myself but fight MMA too and we train our Jiu Jitsu at a high intensity from the MMA/Wrestling influence I guess, and I think it helps.

I've tapped higher level belts from other gyms who come in to roll and it's simply because of intensity, He said to our coach afterwards that he's never seen anyone he trains like we do....... and he's not the first person I've heard say that.

I personally love training like that as In a real self defence situation your going to go all out aren't you so why wouldn't you want to train like that. Drilling is important obviously but theres a place for live rolling too.

In terms of influences from other arts and why people are so against it I think a lot of people are insecure and need to belong in BJJ, so they want to see themselves as 100% BJJ and part of a community.
Personally I believe it's beneficial to cross train somewhat, I've beat better technical BJJ guys by using my Wrestling against them, and better Wrestlers using BJJ.

Clarification I'm not saying all bjj (athletes or gyms) have that "slow roll" mentality. Or aren't willing to take good aspects from other arts. I've just noticed the same guys who are so anti-wrestling or other grappling arts.
(Or obnoxiously promote Freestyle or Greco wrestling over Folkstyle, because they think the Olympic styles are closer to the "sacred judo", even though they have never wrestled competively)
Are usually the "slow roll" only guy.
Not trying to be a dbag or start a fight. The extent of the tribalism fascinates me

 

[jack36767]

Too many people try to define themselves by their hobbies. They form a cult like attachment to their MA 'community' and scrape up whatever bits of personality they can find from within it. If a random stranger on the internet doesn't admit their style is the 'best', then they perceive it as a direct attack on their self-worth. Then they get butt-flustered and feel as if they have to go to war.

There seems to a be a high correlation of this with Instagram and Tumblr usage.

^^^^
I think this probably nailed it man

 

[ThatBJJGuy]

"One thing that has personally bothered me is a lot of guys ONLY want to "flow" or "slow roll" or whatever you want to call it. I'll be the first to say there's a place for that. But sometimes it's time to go LIVE and have two guys do their best to beat each other and keep dominate position, then slap hands when you're done. I honestly think at least some of this mentality is not wanting to actually "lose" in practice."

Seriously, where do you guys are finding these sparring "flow roll" partners?!
Every guy I have ever rolled with are bjj djihadists who don't know anything else than going balls out in sparring.

Flow roll is fini as a warmup but it never stays cool for more than a few minutes.

Maybe the "judo" mentality we have here, I don't know... but I'm always surprised when I see guys talking about the "light rolls" in bjj where in my experience it has always be kill or be killed.

I've done a lot a kick boxing in the past and in my experience bjj guys spar a lot harder than strikers...

light rolling is for ***s and i refuse to roll light

 

[sb413197]

I think this is sport-specific. Judo seems to be the worst in terms of governing bodies - they will try to ban Judokas who cross-compete etc - but the practicioners seem pretty open minded and generally like to learn the ground stuff of BJJ. BJJ is in the middle - some guys take the "this is the only thing you need" approach but for the most part I think BJJ is pretty open minded and likes to cross-train and learn new stuff. Interestingly, wrestlers seem the most open-minded and just like to learn new stuff, probably because they come from a "whatever works, win at all costs" type philosophy.

The TMAs (which I would define as minimal sparring and lots of mysticism) seem to be FAAAAR worse. Guys who train Aikido, JJJ, kung fu grappling etc....those guys don't like cross-training.

 

[MisterRay]

People actually argue against cross training other grappling disciplines? All I ever hear in the gym is "I wish I would have wrestled in high school". Maybe I'm just not on the forums enough but everyone I talk to who trains bjj wishes they had time or were healthy enough to do judo or wrestling on the side.

 

[Aikidoka]

They like to think that what they do is the best in the world.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I think there are 3 kinds of people who propagate this belief:

1. Newbies who are so enamored with BJJ that they can't imagine anything else being as cool or useful.

2. Old guys who have only ever done BJJ and have become very set in their ways and defensive of the 'purer' BJJ they learned.

3. What I think of as the TMA-BJJ crowd, mostly Gracie Humaita fanboys who think Helio invented leverage and UFC 1-3 were the defining moments of martial arts.

Most higher ranked guys these days, whether they compete or not, recognize the utility and technical prowess of other arts. I talk to plenty of purple, brown, and black belts who regret not having wrestling in high school or stuck with that Judo class they took at the YMCA as a kid. And who doesn't wish they could learn more Sambo?

Especially as no-gi gains popularity and BJJ becomes increasingly relegated to a smaller and smaller sphere of applicability in MMA, serious grapplers are dropping their prejudices against other arts, especially wrestling. I think a lot of people are much more interested in being complete grapplers than used to be the case.

 

[Nnedd]

I honestly think it's because they haven't tried them.

I grew doing TKD, I loved it when I did it. It's awesome.

In adulthood I've done alot of MT, MMA and these days mostly BJJ and MMA.

I loved it all and enjoyed doing all of it. I think people who knock other arts probably haven't invested time in doing them, and they build wall in their minds about why they don't need to.

Combat sports and arts are awesome, and I've liked almost everyone I've trained. Even the weird guys who go full contact without pads and practice knife fighting with straws.

I might think some are more applicable to real life situations than others, but that's not the be all end of value.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

i think a lot of bjj practictioners now days recognize the benefits of supplementing their game with something like wrestling. everyone who trains or even teaches bjj knows and admits there is a lack of training in take downs.

And i think most bjj practitioners are pretty open to accepting things like 10th planet, catch wrestling, sambo, and judo as legitimate martial arts now days, whether or not they train in those arts.

there will always be dudes with 1 track minds though.