Whose policies affect whom?

[nostradumbass]

I mean overall, which policies help/hurt small businesses, which help/hurt workers, and which help/hurt corporations and how? Is there a difference between long-term and short-term with either one?

 

[JDragon]

I don't really know how I stumbled into this thread, but anyway. It is an interesting question you ask @nostradumbass , but you will need to give some input - and if it is just a list of policy measures you would like discussed / categorized.

 

[nostradumbass]

I don't really know how I stumbled into this thread, but anyway. It is an interesting question you ask @nostradumbass , but you will need to give some input - and if it is just a list of policy measures you would like discussed / categorized.

Anything is open for discussion, but there are quite a few social programs that I don't think help the people they're being sold to. I think minimum wage is a big one. It's being sold as a help to struggling families, as if it's just more money for them that comes from nowhere, when in reality it will affect wages for everyone else to make up the difference, will certainly slow raises from the minimum wage and will price unskilled workers out of the market entirely. It's a compassionate policy to ostensibly lift the floor of poverty but really just screws over everybody but the evil "top 1%" and maybe a few young kids temporarily.

Free college is another myth. It's supposed to help students avoid debt but in reality, that debt is just transferred to the IRS and they will still wind up paying for that education and then some with the higher taxes they'll pay for the rest of their lives.

A lot of liberal policies are like that old experiment where they put a marshmallow in front of a kid and tell him if he can hold off for 20 minutes, he'll get 2, but most crack and just eat the first one. This mentality carries over into adulthood and a lot of the "compassionate" policies are just exploiting this weakness for votes.

 

[sloppypie]

Anything is open for discussion, but there are quite a few social programs that I don't think help the people they're being sold to. I think minimum wage is a big one. It's being sold as a help to struggling families, as if it's just more money for them that comes from nowhere, when in reality it will affect wages for everyone else to make up the difference, will certainly slow raises from the minimum wage and will price unskilled workers out of the market entirely. It's a compassionate policy to ostensibly lift the floor of poverty but really just screws over everybody but the evil "top 1%" and maybe a few young kids temporarily.

so wait, you think businesses should be able to be pay their employees $1/hour?

yea, that's going to create a sustainable income for people. current minimum wage can't even do that, guess we can become the shantytown states of america. real estate developers can continue to raise the prices of rent and houses as they gentrify neighborhoods, and they can push all those nasty poor people into the outskirts where they belong.

a lot of your policies ignore the realities of what companies and businesses to do people when there isn't a parental figure there to wag the finger at them. you may want to go and read some US history, b/c it's full of very bad times in america with setups exactly like you are advocating.

basically, you're no less an idealist than bernie. except what you want is far more dangerous. to an extreme degree.

while we're at it, lets just dump environmental and health regulations too. i mean fuck it right, they don't do anything except keep us alive and healthy. i'd love to play a game of russian roulette at a buffet restaurant wondering which will give me food poisoning. my life could use some more risk to spice it up. and i'm sick of always having clean water - i'd like it to occasionally turn sludge like b/c a company wanted to save $5 million by dumping some toxic shit into an aqueduct.

 

[nostradumbass]

so wait, you think businesses should be able to be pay their employees $1/hour?

yea, that's going to create a sustainable income for people. current minimum wage can't even do that, guess we can become the shantytown states of america. real estate developers can continue to raise the prices of rent and houses as they gentrify neighborhoods, and they can push all those nasty poor people into the outskirts where they belong.

a lot of your policies ignore the realities of what companies and businesses to do people when there isn't a parental figure there to wag the finger at them. you may want to go and read some US history, b/c it's full of very bad times in america with setups exactly like you are advocating.

basically, you're no less an idealist than bernie. except what you want is far more dangerous. to an extreme degree.

while we're at it, lets just dump environmental and health regulations too. i mean fuck it right, they don't do anything except keep us alive and healthy. i'd love to play a game of russian roulette at a buffet restaurant wondering which will give me food poisoning. my life could use some more risk to spice it up. and i'm sick of always having clean water - i'd like it to occasionally turn sludge like b/c a company wanted to save $5 million by dumping some toxic shit into an aqueduct.

What? Would you take a job for $1/hour? Yeah, neither would anybody else. Go to home depot this week and try to offer the illegal immigrants standing outside who don't even speak English that much and see if you find any takers. If your employer doesn't pay you fairly, you find one who will. There is an invisible hand that forces things on the market due to competition, and a gov't mandate only slows growth because the number is already set.

I'm a good example. I took a job that, while it was never minimum wage, was less than I made before but since it was a new company, my income grew as the company did. My first month I only made 3K working 10 hours/day, 7 days/wk, but I made 120K last year because I took the chance on a company who couldn't just give me a guaranteed 80k. These stupid policies are assuming every company is Wal-mart and everything is stagnant and there is no competition for emplyees.

 

[sloppypie]

What? Would you take a job for $1/hour? Yeah, neither would anybody else.

you are delusional if you think workers have any bargaining power over their wages. most everyone is in debt, and when you are in debt, you take what you can get.

unless you were born rich, which maybe you were and these aren't real world problems you have to look at.

you are also falling into the same "trickle down economics" trap that has been proven time and time again to do nothing but create worse economic conditions for everyone except the ultra rich. nobody wants that, and if you really think deregulating everything and giving ultimate power to private industry will make us prosperous, then you'll be wondering what the fuck you were thinking when you are paying your entire salary for a tiny apartment while the CEO of your company is worse $15 billion.

 

[sloppypie]

If your employer doesn't pay you fairly, you find one who will.

i'm sorry, i can tell you mean well, but i sincerely doubt you have any real world experience if you think this is how the world operates. b/c it just isn't.

 

[AgedFlatus]

Being in debt and choices...

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Anything is open for discussion, but there are quite a few social programs that I don't think help the people they're being sold to. I think minimum wage is a big one. It's being sold as a help to struggling families, as if it's just more money for them that comes from nowhere, when in reality it will affect wages for everyone else to make up the difference, will certainly slow raises from the minimum wage and will price unskilled workers out of the market entirely. It's a compassionate policy to ostensibly lift the floor of poverty but really just screws over everybody but the evil "top 1%" and maybe a few young kids temporarily.

Free college is another myth. It's supposed to help students avoid debt but in reality, that debt is just transferred to the IRS and they will still wind up paying for that education and then some with the higher taxes they'll pay for the rest of their lives.

A lot of liberal policies are like that old experiment where they put a marshmallow in front of a kid and tell him if he can hold off for 20 minutes, he'll get 2, but most crack and just eat the first one. This mentality carries over into adulthood and a lot of the "compassionate" policies are just exploiting this weakness for votes.

I'll say this, while I can see a person looking at what Sanders is proposing as extreme, many of the policies that he is proposing are simply much needed and overdo corrections to the policies our country has allowed to be adopted over the last 50 years that have helped the wealthy at the expense of the poor and middle class.

For minimum wage (MW), not only has the MW fallen way behind inflation, trade agreements like NAFTA have robbed this country of better paying jobs and turned our country into a nation of the service industry where minimum wage is the only option. And this is all while major multinational corporations (MNC) have recorded record profits and CEO's are bringing in obscene salaries relative to their average worker.

For colleges, this isn't some crazy idea. America has a rich history of publicly funded colleges. And stop saying "free". Everybody understands its not free. The only myth is that anybody doesn't understand that. And we're one of the few developed nations in the world that doesn't offer it.

 

[nostradumbass]

I'll say this, while I can see a person looking at what Sanders is proposing as extreme, many of the policies that he is proposing are simply much needed and overdo corrections to the policies our country has allowed to be adopted over the last 50 years that have helped the wealthy at the expense of the poor and middle class.

For minimum wage (MW), not only has the MW fallen way behind inflation, trade agreements like NAFTA have robbed this country of better paying jobs and turned our country into a nation of the service industry where minimum wage is the only option. And this is all while major multinational corporations (MNC) have recorded record profits and CEO's are bringing in obscene salaries relative to their average worker.

For colleges, this isn't some crazy idea. America has a rich history of publicly funded colleges. And stop saying "free". Everybody understands its not free. The only myth is that anybody doesn't understand that. And we're one of the few developed nations in the world that doesn't offer it.

One of a few, and an education from those is worth more than the countries who have crappy public college.

you are delusional if you think workers have any bargaining power over their wages. most everyone is in debt, and when you are in debt, you take what you can get.

unless you were born rich, which maybe you were and these aren't real world problems you have to look at.

you are also falling into the same "trickle down economics" trap that has been proven time and time again to do nothing but create worse economic conditions for everyone except the ultra rich. nobody wants that, and if you really think deregulating everything and giving ultimate power to private industry will make us prosperous, then you'll be wondering what the fuck you were thinking when you are paying your entire salary for a tiny apartment while the CEO of your company is worse $15 billion.

I wasn't born rich at all. It's as if you didn't read the rest of my post. A minimum wage hike doesn't just come out of the CEO's pocket, it comes out of the middle-wage workers. Corporations won't wind up spending more on employees, they'll just shift some numbers around. Again, this is also pretending every company is a big corporation that can afford a huge increase in wage payout. A shitty furniture store in Iowa with a handful of customers/day now has to pay the same for a clerk as what qualifies as a "livable wage" in NYC. That job and that company just won't exist anymore and your only choice will be work for a corporation because nobody else can afford to pay a high school kid 35k/year in most of the country.

The workers aren't bargaining, the other companies are doing it for them. Chik-fil-a already pays more, which is why their workers are generally nicer than the shitty burger places. But of course them paying workers better to get better employees takes a backseat to the owners being Christian "homophobes" and are in need of a boycott. Libs are very quick to abandon one stance if they disagree with even a spec of another. You'll find that support from people over 30 and people who work for the same company for more than a few years is extremetly diminished from the number who support it when they've never worked, certainly never run a business, and never paid taxes. Why do you suppose that might be?

 

[RerouteToRemain]

I was trying to figure out for example how much McDonald's prices would increase % wise if everyone in the company got a $5 per hour raise. That might not even be $15 depending on area or time spent working there.

From what I've read McDonald's brings in 27.4 billion in revenue(2014). That is roughly 75 million per day.

So I'm not sure how many hours the average worker at mcd's works in week but let's call it 30 hours. McDonald's has 1.5 million employees. 1,500,000 x 30 x $5 = 225,000,000. 225,000,000 ÷ 7 =
32,142,857.

They would need to generate an extra 32.14 million per day to make up for the raise or roughly 43% percent more.

So would that be a 43% increase in food prices? I'm not sure if I'm doing this correctly or simplifying a more complicated process.