who squats deep ?

I'm not sure why but after I squat deep and then later try to do sprints for conditioning, my knees are killing me. Anyone have similar problems?
 
Are you squatting deep and doing the sprints on the same day?
Where are you doing the sprints (road, pavement, dirt track, grass)?

I would guess the ass to grass is doing some minor tearage to ligaments and tendons and the sprints are aggrevating it (please note, I didn't say the tears were bad, just insinuating the lack of recovery is bad)
 
Rjkd12 said:
Don't rip on bodybuilders who do 1/4 squats. EMG work has shown that the only difference in activation of muscle is as you go lower your glutes are activated more, and hamstring and quad activation are the same. So, if you want maximum stimulation of the hams and quads, its better to do a 1/4 squat with a lot more weight than to go ass to the grass.

For bodybuilding, sure, legit argument.

But for most athletic pursuits, including MMA, you want your muscles to be strong throughout the entire range of motion, so the EMG activation of a quarter squat is not really relevant
 
johnnydussimo said:
For bodybuilding, sure, legit argument.

But for most athletic pursuits, including MMA, you want your muscles to be strong throughout the entire range of motion, so the EMG activation of a quarter squat is not really relevant


I disagree. Athletics do not dictate that you are always starting at a point where your glutes, for instance, have to take the bulk of a static load. Sometimes, a quick burst may need to come from the quads or hams, depending on posture/position. The best way to train for this is to cover all your bases and squat in ways such that all the different muscles get a chance to be the focal point when "reversing course" during a lift.

Yes, when you squat to the floor, your quads and hams will be incorporated as you come up, but at that point, momentum is already underway. A body in motion tends to stay in motion and a body at rest tends to stay at rest, thus, the point of max exertion is typically at the lift transition. If you only squat to the floor, you're neglecting (to some degree) the dominant muscles used to break a static position at half squat, quarter squat, etc.
 
100affirmed said:
I'm not sure why but after I squat deep and then later try to do sprints for conditioning, my knees are killing me. Anyone have similar problems?


You can run & do deep squats on the same day, but you have to do the running first. I had a similar problem and found that this was the solution. For some reason the knees dont like running after squats, but squats after running is ok. I'm not sure of the scientific explanation for this though.
 
fat_wilhelm said:
I disagree. Athletics do not dictate that you are always starting at a point where your glutes, for instance, have to take the bulk of a static load. Sometimes, a quick burst may need to come from the quads or hams, depending on posture/position. The best way to train for this is to cover all your bases and squat in ways such that all the different muscles get a chance to be the focal point when "reversing course" during a lift.

Yes, when you squat to the floor, your quads and hams will be incorporated as you come up, but at that point, momentum is already underway. A body in motion tends to stay in motion and a body at rest tends to stay at rest, thus, the point of max exertion is typically at the lift transition. If you only squat to the floor, you're neglecting (to some degree) the dominant muscles used to break a static position at half squat, quarter squat, etc.

True.

But to be fair, full squat covers every range of motion and also the DL type of movement that it incorporates makes the full squat as your bread and butter of your squat workout.


And this is only a theory of mine, but when you do full squats there momentum is already underway. While that is true, when you do quarter squats you also have stretch reflex in the place where you wanna get out of while in the full squat there isn't much of that as there is momentum. So the full squat isn't too shabby at all. So kinda balances out won't it?

Yea, but the quarter squat makes the quad and ham to move up against the momentum....... so I guess I kinda nullified my theory.

Now here is a question to all....

Can you train stretch reflex?
 
Going to deep hurts too many body parts for me. I suppose if you can do it pain free - go for it!
 
fat_wilhelm said:
I disagree. Athletics do not dictate that you are always starting at a point where your glutes, for instance, have to take the bulk of a static load. Sometimes, a quick burst may need to come from the quads or hams, depending on posture/position. The best way to train for this is to cover all your bases and squat in ways such that all the different muscles get a chance to be the focal point when "reversing course" during a lift.

Yes, when you squat to the floor, your quads and hams will be incorporated as you come up, but at that point, momentum is already underway. A body in motion tends to stay in motion and a body at rest tends to stay at rest, thus, the point of max exertion is typically at the lift transition. If you only squat to the floor, you're neglecting (to some degree) the dominant muscles used to break a static position at half squat, quarter squat, etc.

Interesting... I'm not entirely sure if I agree with you (re: training reversing action at different points), but I do know that I don't personally have time to squat x different ways in order to train my stretch reflex from all positions.

Regardless, that's not what I was arguing. I was just saying that even though EMG activation may be just as high when doing a quarter squat, you won't be developing strength in the bottom position which is important for many sports. I wasn't saying not to do quarter or half squats as part of a comprehensive routine, but rather just that you shouldn't neglect full squats just because quarter squats activate the same number of motor units
 
Big_One said:
You can run & do deep squats on the same day, but you have to do the running first. I had a similar problem and found that this was the solution. For some reason the knees dont like running after squats, but squats after running is ok. I'm not sure of the scientific explanation for this though.
It's best not to tax the aerobic and anaerobic energy systems in the same day.

So if squats are heavy, the run should be REALLY light, or vice versa.
 
fat_wilhelm said:
I disagree. Athletics do not dictate that you are always starting at a point where your glutes, for instance, have to take the bulk of a static load. Sometimes, a quick burst may need to come from the quads or hams, depending on posture/position. The best way to train for this is to cover all your bases and squat in ways such that all the different muscles get a chance to be the focal point when "reversing course" during a lift.

Yes, when you squat to the floor, your quads and hams will be incorporated as you come up, but at that point, momentum is already underway. A body in motion tends to stay in motion and a body at rest tends to stay at rest, thus, the point of max exertion is typically at the lift transition. If you only squat to the floor, you're neglecting (to some degree) the dominant muscles used to break a static position at half squat, quarter squat, etc.

lifting is GPP for all sports, train strength topography.
 
What I've found works best for me is to do heavy squats to parallel with a slightly wider than shoulder width stance. Then I like to do full range pistols to hit the full range of motion. Sometimes I'll do them on the same day, and sometimes I split them on different days. The parallel squats allow me to use a lot of weight, and the pistols allow me work out imbalances and work the full ROM. This has been very successful for me.
 
I think that it really depends on the state of your knees. I had osgood schlatters when I was 11 years old and that stopped me from sprinting for a few years. I used to squat ass to grass until about a year ago when I hurt my knees again. I think that you put too much torque on your knees if you go ass to grass. Nowadays I go to parallel or a couple of inches below and I have squat 315lbs for 9 reps and I have squat 360lbs for 1. My 1RM deadlift is also very similar at 360lbs although I can't deadlift 315 lbs for as many reps. I don't think that any powerlifting association requires you to squat ass to grass for it to be a legitimate squat anyway. I think that it has to be just below parallel. I know that I squat deeper than all of the guys in my gym, although I don't think that the gym culture is the same in the UK as it is in the US.
 
Ted-P said:
Now here is a question to all....

Can you train stretch reflex?


I would have to say no. Cocky said yes, and I would love a better explanation as why. I am only guessing and don't have any proof.

A reflex, a true reflex (not something you have gotten so good at it has become "a reflex" because that isn't a real reflex) goes from the stimulus, then the spinal cord, and then the effector (in this case, a muslce). There is no higher order brain cognition involved, you can't control it, you can't modify it etc.. Arousal can slightly modify all nerve action, but that isn't trainable.

Well, I'm going to chance my response mid-argument. I would say you can, but it is VERY marginal. I would assume an athletes fine tuned body would just have a marginally better CNS overall, compared to sedentary people. You pretend to punch your grandma, she won't doge it. There are a lot of factors (such as vision) but overall I would assume an elderly persons CNS is not as sensitive as a young athletes. So I would think that in the very beginning of training your stretch reflex may get a bit more sensitive and a little bit fine tuned. Overall though I would say, for all intensive purposes, that is it impossible to train.
 
you can definately expand the elastic properties of a muscle, which is what i was referring to. Thats the reason most explosive athletes get faster or more powerful, and the reasoning behind plyometrics. You can also program your nervous system and since the stretch reflex is a neuro muscular property, it can be enhanced both ways.
 
Shoulder width or wider, ass back style is going to be best for most lifters, as well as most athletes. However, I advocate front squats or full squats for athletes as assistance. The trade off in terms of load vs. ROM favors the power squat in this case.

That being said, if you're skinnyish, and especially if you are lanky, you will always pull a lot more than you squat most likely. For example, I squat 700 and pull 675, but I'm also 310lbs, so I've eaten and lifted my way to better squat leverages.
 
Rjkd12 said:
I would have to say no. Cocky said yes, and I would love a better explanation as why. I am only guessing and don't have any proof.

A reflex, a true reflex (not something you have gotten so good at it has become "a reflex" because that isn't a real reflex) goes from the stimulus, then the spinal cord, and then the effector (in this case, a muslce). There is no higher order brain cognition involved, you can't control it, you can't modify it etc.. Arousal can slightly modify all nerve action, but that isn't trainable.

Well, I'm going to chance my response mid-argument. I would say you can, but it is VERY marginal. I would assume an athletes fine tuned body would just have a marginally better CNS overall, compared to sedentary people. You pretend to punch your grandma, she won't doge it. There are a lot of factors (such as vision) but overall I would assume an elderly persons CNS is not as sensitive as a young athletes. So I would think that in the very beginning of training your stretch reflex may get a bit more sensitive and a little bit fine tuned. Overall though I would say, for all intensive purposes, that is it impossible to train.

I might be misunderstanding the question cause I'm not an expert or squat much at all.

But if you trained at home or had and mp3 player or something, couldn't you set up something with a random timer. Say you have a constant downward rate on your squat. Then had a random timer make a beep somewhere between 0 and the time for a full ass to the grass squat. When the beep sounded you'd begin the up portion of the squat.

This wouldn't be a complete training since your not really looking to beable to squat when you hear beeps. You'd have to develop some practice in your martial art training where you have to respond to a movement in or near that squat position.

Seems like a lot of work though. The time spent figuring out how to get the random beep would probably be better spent doing squats or martial arts.
 
CarnalSalvation said:
Shoulder width or wider, ass back style is going to be best for most lifters, as well as most athletes. However, I advocate front squats or full squats for athletes as assistance. The trade off in terms of load vs. ROM favors the power squat in this case.

That being said, if you're skinnyish, and especially if you are lanky, you will always pull a lot more than you squat most likely. For example, I squat 700 and pull 675, but I'm also 310lbs, so I've eaten and lifted my way to better squat leverages.
Would that mean wide half squats?
 
dont you hate when you squat deep in the gym and people correct you to save your knees from devestating long term injury
 
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