Who knew that Collar and Elbow Wrestling still existed? Well sort of...

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Bumpkin Young, Jul 9, 2009.

  1. Bumpkin Young

    Bumpkin Young White Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    2
    I go to a grappling club on the side, where there are a few guys with various backgrounds. Yesterday we had a little guy come in and when we asked what his background was, he said he learned a few things from family members. Well, we start rolling and he is WAY better than we expected him to be. I think he subbed everyone at least once, and he only weighed like a buck-thirty at best, and he was tossing us left and right from the clinch.

    Being the curious type that we are, we drilled him further about his training background, thinking he must have trained in some amount of Judo, and he told us it was Collar and Elbow Wrestling. He then was nice enough to show us a few nogi throws and a couple of gi throws which he called mares.

    The techs seemed similar to Judo and seem like they would work well for both gi and nogi. Anyone else have any experience in Collar and Elbow Wrestling or even knew it still existed?

    Oh and he showed me a wicked leg lock that I will get him to further explain next time. It was sick! Seemed like he baited me by forcing me to roll out of a heel hook attempt. He then sat up but I'm not sure how he entangled me, but I couldn't do jack! He then showed that he had several options for the finish (showed others, because I was actually tied up at the moment lol).

    Whatever it was, I've NEVER seen or been in that position before (and leg locks are my specialty). When I learn it, I'll see if I can upload it to show you guys. I've been searching all the sites but haven't found a video for it, so I'm guessing it either doesn't currently exist in other systems, it's extremely rare, or it's something that he's come up with on his on. Whichever, I was pretty surprised that this little guy brought so much to the table. Sorry for the long post, but it was an interesting session.
     
    ReasonableMMAFan likes this.
  2. TyroneSlothrop**

    TyroneSlothrop** Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,762
    Likes Received:
    1
    interesting


    but would have appreciated more details
     
  3. Kforcer

    Kforcer Dragon Slayer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2002
    Messages:
    13,073
    Likes Received:
    108
    Location:
    East Lansing, Michigan
    Reminds me of a time I ran into a guy who did Pehlwani. Turned out to be dating a girl I knew, while incidentally being married.

    But grappling with him was real neat. He did a lot of drop toe-hold type stuff, which was, if I recall, the most unusual sort of thing he did. I actually don't know if that is Pehlwani or just him being unorthodox. Hard for me to remember other stuff he did, because it was so long ago. He was a BJJ practitioner as well, but I can't remember how much it showed or didn't show.

    I know he was always talking about "using your weight" as the best thing you could do in grappling. For example, "That was great! You really used your weight there!"
     
  4. BJJ Beginner

    BJJ Beginner Green Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,226
    Likes Received:
    4
    Sounds interesting.
     
  5. Kforcer

    Kforcer Dragon Slayer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2002
    Messages:
    13,073
    Likes Received:
    108
    Location:
    East Lansing, Michigan
    And it sounds to me like this guy caught you in a step-over toe hold, a compression lock that was used often in pro-wrestling as a follow-up to an Achilles if someone rolled through.

    Dave Dean, assistant coach at MSU, showed me and a bunch of guys the move during MSU's intensive high school camps and taught it as a way to basically make a guy hurt enough that he pinned himself. He said you had to be careful about how you used it in high school and to be subtle about it, otherwise you could get broken up or called for potentially dangerous.
     
  6. brianX

    brianX Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gordon Solie, the old pro wrestling announcer, used to call hip-tosses "mares" or "flying mares." So I'm guessing collar-and-elbow shares some genealogy with catch wrestling.
     
  7. Bumpkin Young

    Bumpkin Young White Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    2
    The only details I can offer at this time is that one of the throws he showed us was a collar and elbow tie up (left hand on back of neck, right hand controlling elbow) version of Koshi Guruma?, Ashi Guruma?, and the other one I'm not sure what it's called in Judo but it was a armdrag variation.

    During the sparring, he landed a few things that look close to Harai TsuriKomi Ashi variations and a few big throws. Like I said, very similar to Judo but slightly different and he seems to kick the legs out harder than Judo guys have done me. I even think he "river dance" kicked my leg out once. He didn't call it that, but it looked like something I would see on lord of the dance. Caught me off guard though and he got the takedown.

    His ground work was pretty descent as well. He was fast as greased oil shit but he was too small to maintain good bases on top, but he was very hard to keep down. The only submissions I can recall him attempting/achieving was a chicken wing shoulder lock, a straight ankle lock, a heel hook, whatever the move he got me in was, a guillotine choke, and that's all I can recall.

    With only this one guy and this one session to go upon, I would say that C&E Wrestling seems to focus on speed (both ground and standing), throws over takedowns, submission before position, good takedown defense, fast scrambles, and if there's more techs like the leg lock he got me in I would venture to say pretty descent submission focus. I would say the main weakness that he had was maintaining a good mount base, but he was smaller than all of us. Good Side Control though.

    Hope that was better detail for you. He'll be at the next session, so I'll ask some more questions about the basics.
     
  8. Bumpkin Young

    Bumpkin Young White Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    2
    I can't believe I didn't think about that... "Snap Mares". I should have asked him to show me that. I learned the pro wrestling way, I wonder how he does it.
     
  9. Bumpkin Young

    Bumpkin Young White Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    2
    No, but that is the set up he used after I rolled out of the heel hook. From the toe hold, he somehow grapevined that leg in a modified calf cutter. From there, I'm not sure, it's hard to tell because he still my back, and the whole time you are feeling pain on that leg, you try to roll out and you end up with both legs secured and in pain. My friend said the guy called it the "Snail Position or Snail Grapevine" but I haven't found any youtube videos with this name. I'll know next week, I'll ask if we can film him explaining it and put it up.
     
  10. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
    24,942
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Land of the Ice and Snow
    Wrestling in general don't call throw mares?

    my coach is ex greco roman he has taught several different maras to me
     
  11. PhillyD45

    PhillyD45 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    1
    Collar and Elbow is another name for catch-as-catch-can wrestling. That's a really old school name for it. Is this guy of English decent?
     
  12. locknload

    locknload White Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yep, think Catch.
     
  13. Kforcer

    Kforcer Dragon Slayer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2002
    Messages:
    13,073
    Likes Received:
    108
    Location:
    East Lansing, Michigan
    I dunno, sounds just like a step-over toe hold to me. The step-over toe hold compresses the calf; it's name is misleading. The part about "both legs secured and in pain" doesn't sound like a step-over toe hold though. Generally, turning away from the pressure of a step-over toe hold gives your opponent your free leg to attack though.
     
  14. dza76wutang

    dza76wutang Black Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,589
    Likes Received:
    135
    Location:
    Providence, Rhode Island
    Did it look like the bottom half of the STF pro-wrestling hold?
     
  15. Kforcer

    Kforcer Dragon Slayer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2002
    Messages:
    13,073
    Likes Received:
    108
    Location:
    East Lansing, Michigan
    Yeah, good call. Sounds like it could've been that.
     
  16. Tony Manifold

    Tony Manifold Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    2,773
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    Does this sound like what he was doing?

    Collar-and-elbow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

     
  17. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    32,493
    Likes Received:
    563
    Location:
    NY
    Was it a calf crusher where he gets behind you with the leg laced?
     
  18. Bumpkin Young

    Bumpkin Young White Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    2
    Home for a minute, not much time.

    No, he wasn't english he was a little country guy but his last name was Irish if that helps.

    My friend called and said he found the tech in a japanese strong-style match and the announcer called it the "Escargot" lock (but he has it on VHS). Still couldn't find it on youtube. I'll start looking again when I get back. Escargot = "Snail" so i'm guessing it's the same move.

    If anyone can find the match where this hold is used, I would appreciate it.
     
  19. Jaxx

    Jaxx Green Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,490
    Likes Received:
    4
    TTT For more info.


    Interesting thread...
     
  20. kidrobot

    kidrobot Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,063
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    I get around
    sounds like the people in your club are really bad
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.