Who is the Boxing HW GOAT?

[MMAmouse]

So when exactly was Mike in his mythical "prime"?

 

[MysticNinjaJay]

So when exactly was Mike in his mythical "prime"?

I think the best incarnation of Tyson we have seen was the one who fought Michael Spinks.

From shortly before he won the HW title against Berbick to the Spinks fight could be considered Tyson's prime.

But this thread isn't about who was the best in their prime it's about who is the GOAT.

 

[clitty]

I go with Rocky Marciano, undefeated. Its a longish word with massive meaning. You can only fight who is put in front of you.

 

[minotaurorush]

Tyson is Top 10 for sure just not in the conversation for #1 IMO.

I think he was closer to his prime against Holyfield but the prison sentence didn't help him.

Ali lost when he came back to fight Frazier and then beat him in the rematches.

Tyson looked terrible against Botha and then fought inferior competition until his match with Lewis. I think he was past his prime and ill-prepared for Lewis.

If the Tyson of the 80s fought Holyfield and Lewis in their primes I think Tyson would win. But those would still be tough fights.

IMO GOAT is all about accomplishments not who could beat who.

no athlete in the history of the sport has gotten a larger if attached to their name then tyson. every single failure in his life was something else's fault. it wasnt him it was don king, he was past him prime.

at some point you have to realize that tyson was a mentally frail bully type fighter who faded when his opponents didnt back down. he failed as a boxer because he is a piece of shit of human being who didnt have the mental toughness of anyone else on that list.

 

[Frank23]

The Klitschko brothers.

Just kidding.

 

[njackets]

Tyson shouldn't even be getting mentioned in a GOAT thread!

 

[MysticNinjaJay]

no athlete in the history of the sport has gotten a larger if attached to their name then tyson. every single failure in his life was something else's fault. it wasnt him it was don king, he was past him prime.

at some point you have to realize that tyson was a mentally frail bully type fighter who faded when his opponents didnt back down. he failed as a boxer because he is a piece of shit of human being who didnt have the mental toughness of anyone else on that list.

I'm not saying that nothing in his life was his fault. I'm just saying that his life spiraled out of control when he got married and started being influenced by the wrong people. He himself made alot of poor decisions.

I don't think it's true that Tyson was just a bully type who faded when his opponents didn't back down. There were several fighters during his prime who he went to decision with while still looking impressive. Razor Ruddock put up two incredible fights both of which Tyson won. In the fights he lost Tyson simply got outboxed.

Douglas was highly motivated after his mother died to win and put on the best fight of his career while Tyson had been screwing around in training and wasn't mentally prepared for a tough fight. Holyfield outboxed a Tyson who after prison was looking sharp leading up to the fight but may not have been in top form. Lennox Lewis outboxed a Tyson who was a shell of his former self. Danny Williams was getting beat until Tyson hurt his knee. Kevin Mcbride was also losing but started to force his weight on Tyson tiring him out. Tyson looked incredibly mentally weak in the Mcbride fight and admitted after the fight that he didn't have the stomach for Boxing anymore.

I'm not making any excuses only putting things in perspective. I do think he could have been the GOAT if he kept his head straight but we'll never know for sure. What we do know for sure is that alot of Boxers who did keep their head straight were more successful than him.

 

[mozfonky]

Tyson wasn't the only guy to fall in with bad company, the Muslims Ali got involved with weren't exactly choirboys but Ali had enough of a straight head on to manage it. I don't want to make it sound easy because life as a superstar, with everyone wanting a piece of you cannot be easy for anyone. Ali made it look easy because he was Ali. Fame, women, the money men destroy many potential greats.

 

[Gorgo]

People keeping talking about Tyson could have beat anybody when he is in his prime and because of that he should be The GOAT HW. What about Bowe then, on his best day in his prime could give Joe Louis,Ali and anybody else the fight of their life, but does that mean he should be consider too.

Hell NO!!!!

This is a very good example. Bowe had all the potential to be an all time great but didn't have the heart or discipline to do it.

I would take the Bowe that beat Holyfield the first time over a prime Tyson. Would be a great fight but I think Bowe's chin was more solid than Tyson's. Not that Tyson had a weak chin but I don't ever remember him recovering once he got hurt.

I think Lewis could have taken Tyson out in the first round of their fight but I think he kept him in there to teach Tyson a lesson.

 

[mozfonky]

This is a very good example. Bowe had all the potential to be an all time great but didn't have the heart or discipline to do it.

I would take the Bowe that beat Holyfield the first time over a prime Tyson. Would be a great fight but I think Bowe's chin was more solid than Tyson's. Not that Tyson had a weak chin but I don't ever remember him recovering once he got hurt.

I think Lewis could have taken Tyson out in the first round of their fight but I think he kept him in there to teach Tyson a lesson.

Bowe was a damn fine heavyweight with no shelf life. He had several wars but golota had him so shot that he was and should have been called "shot" at, what was it 28? Resilience is a key part of greatness, greatness is marked partly by longevity. I do think bowe had huge heart, you don't beat Holyfield without that and the beating he took in the golota fights, particularly the second one where he had nothing left, were notable. Best infighting big man ever at his height,(because Futch believed tyson to be his future opponent he taught him this way), great jab, good power. Tyson would have had trouble with many of the eras fighters at any stage because he himself never fully matured.

 

[Taro]

Between Louis and Ali. It would be really interesting to see how Tyson would do against them.

 

[LetUrHandsGo***]

are people really saying tyson as a serious answer? wow

 

[The Green Lantern]

The Brown Bomber. 25 consecutive title defenses. The record still stands.

1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Johnson
3.Ali

At least Joe lost to Marciano when he was shot. Ali lost to Trevor Berbick...

 

[Tazzz]

Buster Douglas.

 

[ssx]

This topic can be debated forever without a definate conclusion. I'd go for Louis over Ali, but it could be that inside I really like Louis and can feel for him and his struggles...Never really cared much for Ali but what the hell...Lennox had it all and defeated every man he faced, but still had the slip ups with McCall and Rahman. And looked like absolute shit in some fights...like Mercer and Mavoric. Holmes to me is top 5 at the absolute worst! Getting up from that shot Shavers hit him with, should earn him a few extra points:icon_chee slipped up losing to Spinks and had some really close calls with Witherspoon, Shavers, Weaver etc hard to say. Ali well...beat Foreman and Liston, two scary, scary guys and did it impressively. Still though, had trouble with left hookers and got dropped and hurt by Frazier, Cooper and Banks. Not to mention Ken Norton got the better of him, no matter what the records show. Tyson, well...great offensive fighters tend to get overrated, but the way people disregard him as a can crusher is ridiculous...KO'ed Holmes and Spinks, doesn't matter what anybody says that is some impressive shit. Holmes fought on for what? 10 years afterwards? and nobody did that to him. Frontrunner? Well maybe...but he stopped training while in his prime, and was drinking, drugging and partying the whole time after he hit his peak. On his absolute best day, I'd pick him over Louis or Ali, but think would still take Lewis at his absolute best to beat Tyson. And old and out of shape or not, losing to Danny Williams and McBride:redface: Oh well...

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
In no particular order Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes, Jack Dempsey...I know Lennox is too high...Oh well I may change my mind tomorrow...

 

[prod2821]

The Brown Bomber. 25 consecutive title defenses. The record still stands.

1.Joe Louis
2.Jack Johnson
3.Ali

At least Joe lost to Marciano when he was shot. Ali lost to Trevor Berbick...

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa...................are you really gonna say Ali wasn't shot when he lost to Berbick?:icon_conf

 

[PJ_Benn]

. Would be a great fight but I think Bowe's chin was more solid than Tyson's. Not that Tyson had a weak chin but I don't ever remember him recovering once he got hurt.
.

I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that Tyson has anything other than a great chin. Certainly better than say Lennox Lewis.

As for him recovering, Bruno staggered him in the first fight and he dominated that.

 

[Gorgo]

I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that Tyson has anything other than a great chin. Certainly better than say Lennox Lewis.

As for him recovering, Bruno staggered him in the first fight and he dominated that.

I didn't say he had a bad chin I said it wasn't as good as Bowe's. Bowe took some huge combos from a prime Holyfield and survived. Tyson was ko'd by a beyond his prime Holyfield.

 

[Greg House]

Mohammed Ali

 

[mozfonky]

I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that Tyson has anything other than a great chin. Certainly better than say Lennox Lewis.

As for him recovering, Bruno staggered him in the first fight and he dominated that.

He did have a great, great chin, unfortunately, he also had an inhuman reputation and the guys that beat him into the canvas never fought better than against him. He absorbed more punishment from those guys than other guys do in entire careers. Holyfield landed solid, solid shots and so did Douglas for the entire fight and only after a severe beating was Tyson shaky. Even Lewis had to take it gradual and Tyson really quit in that fight as well as some of the next few. Tyson was also easy to find in his later years, the mercurial little ball of fire of the eighties was long gone by the time of the beatings. Used to be one great defensive fighter and a pleasure to watch.