Who is the Boxing HW GOAT?

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by MysticNinjaJay, Jul 18, 2010.

  1. MysticNinjaJay

    MysticNinjaJay Banned Banned

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    Muhammad Ali is widely recognized as the Greatest of all Time. But is he? I know it is subjective but when I look at the history of Boxing I wonder how arguable this claim is.

    Joe Louis defended the HW title an unprecedented 25 times. He only lost 3 fights. One of which was a decision, one of which he avenged and one was his last fight when he was over the hill.

    Rocky Marciano never lost a fight. He is the only HW champion to finish his career undefeated. To this date no champion has beaten his undefeated streak.

    Lennox Lewis defeated every opponent he fought, avenging his only two losses and retired as champion.


    So who is the greatest?

    IMO it's really an argument between Ali and Louis. Marciano was undefeated but he didn't fight the caliber of fighters the other two fought. Ali lost more fights than Louis but he was also a 3 time HW champion and fought better competition. Lewis did beat everyone he fought but I feel that his career is tainted by retiring without giving Vitali Klitschko a rematch in a fight Vitali was clearly winning before the cut stoppage.

    I would have to give the edge to Louis if I had to pick a GOAT. IMO Ali comes in a close second and Marciano 3rd. Louis's title defense streak was very impressive.
     
  2. TheRatman

    TheRatman Brown Belt

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    Larry Holmes. Laugh if you want to but the guy should be around the top of the list.
     
  3. ThirdPartyView

    ThirdPartyView Keeping Jack Dempsey from ducking

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    He's definitely a Top 10 all-time HW, but you'd need to sell me on a solid case to beat out Ali & Louis (who are pretty much universally regarded as being #1 and 2).
     
  4. MysticNinjaJay

    MysticNinjaJay Banned Banned

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    You're right he does deserve an honorable mention.

    He came close to breaking Loius's streak AND Marciano's unbeaten record. He just slipped up a bit towards the end of his career. Spinks bested him twice. He was coming along in age but he still got beat.

    Another thing to consider is the fact that Muhammad Ali was on his way to big things before he got stripped of his title and took that long lay off fighting the courts over his refusal of induction into the army. He could have had a bigger streak than Loius and retired unbeaten like Marciano if it weren't for that interruption. The fact that he regained the title against all odds is impressive.
     
  5. TheRatman

    TheRatman Brown Belt

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    Give me sec to put down my baby and I get back to yall why I think he is belong with Ali and Louis.

    Altough TS already said my best points.
     
  6. enswell****

    enswell**** Blue Belt

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    #1 The Brown Bomber Joe Louis.

    You can rearrange the following names however ya want for the next names on the list.
    Jack Dempsey
    Jack Johnson
    Muhammad Ali
    Larry Holmes

    Rocky Marciano
    Jim Jeffries
    Mike Tyson
    Lennox Lewis
    George Foreman
     
  7. prod2821

    prod2821 Gold Belt

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    ^ no

    I lean towards Louis
     
  8. Oak

    Oak 栄誉

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    Mike Tyson
     
  9. BlankaGoodwin

    BlankaGoodwin White Belt

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    Mike Tyson.
     
  10. enswell****

    enswell**** Blue Belt

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    Here's some Joe Louis highlights:

    [YT]a8UF0MIwc70[/YT]
     
  11. TheRatman

    TheRatman Brown Belt

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    Ok as here I go with why Larry should be consider as a better Heavyweight Chmpion then Ali and Louis.

    First. let look at the character of the 3.
    Ali fought in a time were when were war and stood up against the gov't in not joining the military and got strip of his title for it. That make him a stronger man then most in the fact he stood by what he believed in, regardless of the punishment. Some hated him for it and some loved him more for it.

    Joe louis fought in the time of war to and in joined the Military. That makes him an honorable man, in that he wanted to fight for his country. Although the gov't would screw him over on later in life.

    Larry fought in a more peaceful time, there was no war world or civil rights movement to help him make that life changing dec. to help him stand out as an above avg. man. So that tells me he had to work harder then the other two to get name recondition.

    Advantage Holmes.

    Sec. lets look at rec of the three.

    Joe louis had more title defense then any other HW champion with 25 and held the title longer, but was inactive for yrs due to his military career.

    Ali was the first man to win the title 3 times I think.

    Larry had 20 titles def. and held the title for 7 yrs and never turned down a fight with anyone.

    There are more things to their careers but these are things that stick out to me.

    Adv. Louis

    Third we looks at skills in the ring.
    Ali was one of the fastest and flashiest Hw of alltime. He used is speed to embarrass his opponents. Later on in his career he was able to change his style up and really on his toughness and ring smarts to beat his opponents.

    Joe Louis had pure knockout power. He was able to Ko most of the fighters that stood in the ring with him.

    Larry Holmes was just a pure boxer. He wasn't fast like Ali and didn't have the Knockout punch that Joe had. So he had to rely on his boxing skill to best his opponents. His jab is arguably the best that has ever been seen. So I look at him as a better over boxer then Ali and Joe cause of what didn't have. The power and speed of Joe or Ali to help him stand out in the mind of most people.

    Adv. Holmes



    Ok those are the reason I look at Larry Holmes as a better HW Champion then Joe Louis or Ali.

    Now, most of the things I have said came off the top of my head and out of my ass, so please have mercy on me when yall pick this apart.:icon_lol:
     
  12. jjrasley

    jjrasley Orange Belt

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    Personally I think it is Ali. but I can see Joe Louis. He was a bad dude.
     
  13. anubismcdeath

    anubismcdeath Purple Belt

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    High 5, Larry was a bad man and still so underrated. Was he the best ever? Skills wise he sure as hell was up there. I got the "brown bomber" Joe Louis at number 1. With Holmes, Ali, Lewis all near the top, the older guys like Dempsey and Johnson, there just isn't enough footage for me to say I am comfortable rating them against guys of later years.
     
  14. Sharkey

    Sharkey Who finishes 3rd?

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    A man with Joe Louis' class in the ring and out deserves a much better selection of music than the garbage that accompanies him in that video bradguy.

    Such as;

    YouTube - Joe Louis Knockouts Part 1

    YouTube - Joe Louis Knockouts Part 2

    And he is the correct answer to the original question posed.
     
  15. TheRatman

    TheRatman Brown Belt

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    Oh, What's up we throwing out Highlights now.

    how bout the last Rds from one of the best HW fights ever.
     
  16. Johnno

    Johnno Yellow Belt

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    Mike Tyson.
     
  17. enswell****

    enswell**** Blue Belt

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    Yep, music choice is often a problem in Boxing compilations, Sharks.

    Plenty of vids of all manners use Lux Aeterna, (theme in Requiem for a Dream), but the 1st clip I ever saw with it was a few years back and remains my favorite Boxing compilation:
    Heavyweights: The Punchers by sitiyzal:

    [YT]VmE4DHPrrnk[/YT]

    I was almost linking TheGreatA's clips instead, but decided to go with the normal speed clip rather than TheGreatA's slow-motion.
    Normal speed looks more brutal, slow-motion shows the artistry better.
    It's like Louis' hands have minds of their own, magnetically drawn to the other man's chin.

    This one's really cool too.
    I really like the way the training footage is juxtaposed.
    [YT]7ngkuQEgwyM[/YT]

    .
     
  18. Gorgo

    Gorgo Purple Belt

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    Are you people being serious when you say Tyson is the GOAT HW?
     
  19. prod2821

    prod2821 Gold Belt

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    yes they are
     
  20. papitodd

    papitodd Purple Belt

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    Seriously...I love me some Mike Tyson...he is my generation....but I think that Ali takes the cake with is overall skills.
     

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