Who is the 2nd greatest Middleweight ever?

If we are talking about UFC career to UFC accomplishment (relative to UFC era) specifically at UFC MW (giving no UFC credit for fights at other UFC weights), the UFC answer is probably Weidman, Mousasi, or Franklin.

At least for UFC now. I think Israel is on a UFC track to UFC eclipse all of that trio in the UFC next two or three years or so, UFC schedule-depending.

Fixed your post for you.

Franklin's career at MW is 8-3. Best wins at 185 are Tanner and Okami by a narrow decision. All losses were devastating.
Let's just remind that, by that time, UFC didnt match offers for their top contenders and former MW champions Bustamante or Lindland, or Suloev. Not to mention Filho, Saku, Hendo and others 185lbers were also getting better offers and opponents in Japan.
All the mentioned MWs from that era could very well beat Evan Tanner - much respect - for the belt, let alone Quarry and Loiseau. To put those Franklin's MW accomplshments in perspective.

How is Franklin with his 8-3 record at MW described above, can be even remotely ranked above legendary 185lbers - and Strikeforce champions - as Jacare Souza or Luke Rockhold?
The answer is strong UFC bias from back in the day.
 
Arent you the most narrow minded weirdo in sherdog?
Henderson is as much of a MW than Franklin or Weidman. As far as size and weight refers which is what middlweight stands for except for ratnerds who jerk off at "factual data" which just sounds as textbook wiki fight finder ratnerd as u can get

Henderson has brutally put away so many elite big men. And he himself is a middle sized man.
Also, the tittle not even ask the best but for the greatest so u can go away with ur Chris fanboyism and lame "factual data"
What does Hendo's LHW/HW accomplishments have to do with his MW accomplishments... at all? You might as well be making the argument that Fedor is the greatest MW of all time.

I'm sorry that correct information bothers people so greatly but Dan Henderson is 10-6 at MW with zero MW championship defenses, in any organization, and very few major victories within that weight class. That's just the cold hard truth of the matter.
 
What does Hendo's LHW/HW accomplishments have to do with his MW accomplishments... at all? You might as well be making the argument that Fedor is the greatest MW of all time.

I'm sorry that correct information bothers people so greatly but Dan Henderson is 10-6 at MW with zero MW championship defenses in any organization, and very few major victories within that weight class. That's just the cold hard truth of the matter.

Does the thread asks "Who has the 2nd best record at 185"? Please some ratnerd come with lame factual data...No. It asks"Who is the 2nd greatest middleweight". Hendo is greater than Weidman, period.
Fedor has only fought at HW btw. Henderson and Weidman are about similar size and walk around weight. Fedor is not
 
Rich Franklin was a fine fighter and champion, but few have a better resume than Dan Henderson. Not sure who he beat at MW though since he changed weight classes pretty often. So, I think he is the better fighter, but not sure if he is a better MW.
 
GSP is the #1 GOAT WW, MW and P4P

so the obvious #2 is Anderson Silva.
 
Fixed your post for you.

Franklin's career at MW is 8-3. Best wins at 185 are Tanner and Okami by a narrow decision. All losses were devastating.
Let's just remind that, by that time, UFC didnt match offers for their top contenders and former MW champions Bustamante or Lindland, or Suloev. Not to mention Filho, Saku, Hendo and others 185lbers were also getting better offers and opponents in Japan.
All the mentioned MWs from that era could very well beat Evan Tanner - much respect - for the belt, let alone Quarry and Loiseau. To put those Franklin's MW accomplshments in perspective.

How is Franklin with his 8-3 record at MW described above, can be even remotely ranked above legendary 185lbers - and Strikeforce champions - as Jacare Souza or Luke Rockhold?
The answer is strong UFC bias from back in the day.

Thoughtful post. I probably let Franklin's wins outside MW influence my thinking a bit much.

To put some more thoughts in the mix...

"All of his losses being devastating" sort of loses it's power when we are talking about three losses, two of which were to the divisional GOAT, with the final one being the last fight of his career when he was obviously past it.

I agree that the talent was majority-slanted outside the UFC during the Pride days, but I don't think that automatically implies anything for a specific fighter. There is nothing contradictory about fighting in a lesser organization but also being more talented than someone in a more talent-rich organization (especially with potential PED issues creating different fighting environments...at least potentially...those things need to be normalized if you want to do direct comparisons).

To that end, when you look at how Franklin performed against the guys of his era who "made their name" in Pride, I don't think it really suggests *him specifically* being in a lesser tier of fighter. Even though the fights happened mostly outside of MW, when he faced the Pride guys who were at relatively similarly place to him on the career arc...he generally made a good showing of himself.

Beyond that, Franklin and guys like Luke or Jacare are of somewhat different eras of MMA, which is why I said "relative to era". I think Rockhold and Jacare would be likely to beat Franklin H2H. I don't think the differences would be that radical when you take era differences into account though.

My true feeling is that a lot of the guys we are talking about are all clustered relatively close together in terms of career value. In those cases, I don't think splitting hairs is especially meaningful, even if fans do it when constructing lists or answering questions like the OP's question. If I wanted to really answer that question more carefully, I'd probably have to devote more time to it and look with a tighter microscope, so to speak.

Edit: I think I probably didn't give enough credit to the length of Rockhold and Jacare's tenure at MW as well...they certainly had more "filler" fights at MW than most....and those fights should carry a non-zero value.
 
Rank Fighter Record All-Time Points
1
BR.png
Anderson Silva 34-10-0
18685
2
US.png
Chris Weidman 14-5-0
7698
3
NL.png
Gegard Mousasi
 
Does the thread asks "Who has the 2nd best record at 185"? No. It asks"Who is the 2nd greatest middleweight".
... That is the same question.

According to your logical Anderson Silva is the greatest WW ever because he used to fight at WW... Which is obviously stupid. You have no idea how far this concept of yours absolutely demolishes every normal idea of what literally everyone thinks of accomplishment inside MMA.

Henderson and Weidman are about similar size and walk around weight. Fedor is not
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Uh... Fedor and Hendo are nearly identical height, weight, and size.

Also, just so you're aware, Chris Weidman is both bigger and taller than either Fedor or Hendo.
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Just so we're all living within the same reality.
 
Who else? It's Bisping. Weidman and Rockhold fell off. Moose fought mostly at light heavy as did Hendo and Wand. Bisping is the greatest and most accomplished middleweight next to the Spider.
 
Ya that's solid data. Kudos.

And that's one major problem with divisional GOAT conversations; ome of the best fighters fought in multiple divisions.

There's an idea for a thread; who's the best fighter across 2 or 3 divisions (that isn't #1 in any one division)?

Anderson Silva is the only fighter I'm aware of that has top 5 wins in 3 divisions, who held belts in 2.

GOAT
 
Israel has 1 total title defense (Yoel) in what was universally viewed as a horrible fight.

3 ranked wins in total for his career (Robert, Kelvin, Yoel)

I understand recency bias but get a hold of yourselves, goddamn.
 
Israel has 1 total title defense (Yoel) in what was universally viewed as a horrible fight.

3 ranked wins in total for his career (Robert, Kelvin, Yoel)

I understand recency bias but get a hold of yourselves, goddamn.
you can just see the skill there tho. Izzy is special.
 
Hypothetically Conor McGregor. He smashes Silva.
 
Don't even know who number 1 is.

I'm thinking Rockhold/Weidman top 2. Rockhold was Strikeforce champ not his fault couldn't fight Silva and he lost to a guy he'd beaten in a fluke. Weidman beat AS twice and had the best run in MMA history besides Jones until he started losing. AS 3 for the Hendo, Belfort wins and his long af streak. Everyone else either has too many holes in their resume(Romero, Whitaker, Bisping, Sonnen, Franklin) or was in MW part time(Belfort, Hendo etc) just think Rockholds and Weidmans are the best of several unclear options.

Everyone's resume has huge problems, Izzy or Costa can make a serious claim if they stay unbeaten. Issue is now though the division is empty think the winner of that fight might reign forever and it won't mean much cause there's no one left at MW from the senior center days.
 
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