Who is more impressive, Jordan or CR7?

Discussion in 'Sports Bar' started by SSgt Dickweed, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. Jackie Blue Gold Belt

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    You should have attempted to make that point rather than this nonsense, then. And that point is MUCH more applicable to the NFL than the NBA. Basketball is truly an international sport. American football is the least. Baseball is less international than basketball, but more than ice hockey. But all are international to some extent, while gridiron football is only competitive in the US and Canada, with a few converted association football/soccer players as kickers.
     
  2. Jordan. Ronaldo is more of a hair gel and lifestyle guy. Jordan was about winning.
     
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  3. Jackie Blue Gold Belt

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    Bottom line is there's no clear association football GOAT. There's about 1/2 dozen guys who get debated as the GOAT. Even from a generational standpoint, fans and pundits usually can't agree who was the best of their generation. Hence CR7 isn't even widely accepted as the best of his generation. Most would likely say Messi, actually.
     
  4. DS7 Bangkok Ready

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    that was never my point so what's the relevance of that comment? My whole point is in response to a guy saying Ronaldo shouldn't even be compared to Jordan because "he couldn't dominate his own generation" and that's a weak argument coming from a guy who doesn't know what he's talking about. No player dominated this era of football because the 2 most likely best of all time are from the same generation, it would be like having Jordan or LeBron in the same era.
     
  5. Jackie Blue Gold Belt

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    I don't want to go around in circles on this, but I do think it's relevant AF to this discussion. We're comparing a guy who was and is so associated with being the best that it's now shorthand to refer to someone who's the best in any given field as the "Michael Jordan" of --------. Versus a guy who's not even widely considered to be the best of his generation. And there's no consensus association football GOAT. If one wants to make the argument that there's a bigger talent pool for association football relative to basketball or especially American football, or that Americans are too US-centric in their sports considerations, or something along those lines, then fine, but this is a dumb comparison.

    Honestly, when I was a kid growing up playing what we called soccer (say what you will about us and our relationship to the sport, but we basically all played it, usually competitively) we talked about Pele being the GOAT and also about Maradona. And there are still plenty of fans who would consider either of them to be the GOAT. For whatever reason, the best player in association football, today or all time, is not clear.
     
  6. Madmick Zugzwang Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Only grave I'm digging is yours. You've had ample opportunity to show a well-designed poll with Ronaldo as the GOAT of his sport. Dude isn't even the best of his generation.
    Oh rly? Here, let's undertake an exercise in impartial review. This will be good for you since you since it appears, now, that you don't know much about soccer.

    We have 79 votes listed in name for Messi, here, all by people who have forgotten more than you'll ever learn about the sport, and/or who achieved more in the sport than you ever will at anything in life. Go one by one and mark down every name that is an Argentinian or an (ex-)Barcelona player/employee. 90% of these means that 71 of these names will fit your description. So, by all means, please. Show us.
    1. Josep Maria Bartomeu (current president of FC Barcelona)
    2. Adriano Galliani (football executive)
    3. Joan Laporta (club president)
    4. FC Barcelona (Spanish superclub)
    5. Carlos Bianchi (only coach to win four Copa Libertadores)
    6. Luis Enrique (footballer and coach)
    7. Pep Guardiola (arguably the greatest coach of the modern era)
    8. Ángel Guillermo Hoyos (coach)
    9. Ronald Koeman (footballer and coach)
    10. Julen Lopetegui (coach)
    11. Graeme Souness (coach)
    12. Ernesto Valverde (coach)
    13. Arsène Wenger (legendary Arsenal coach)
    14. Riath Al-Samarrai (chief sports feature writer at the Daily Mail)
    15. Guillem Balagué (football journalist, author and pundit)
    16. Chris Bascombe (football reporter for The Daily Telegraph)
    17. Oliver Browning (GiveMeSport author)
    18. J Bull (football writer for The Daily Telegraph)
    19. Jason Burt (chief football correspondent for The Daily Telegraph and The Sunday Telegraph)
    20. Alex Chick (journalist)
    21. Sarthak Dev (contributor for Football Paradise)
    22. Ty Duffy (college American football contributor for The Athletic Detroit and former writer on The Big Lead)
    23. Taronish Elavia (contributor for Football Paradise)
    24. Siavoush Fallahi (sports journalist)
    25. Graham Hunter (football journalist and award-winning author)
    26. Mike Keegan (sports news correspondent/sports agenda editor at the Daily Mail)
    27. Jussi Leppälahti (football journalist at Finnish sports magazine, Elmo, and head coach of Kakkonen club JIPPO)
    28. Danny Lewis (published author and freelance sport journalist for various papers)
    29. Philip Micallef (contributor for SBS)
    30. Andy Mitten (journalist, author and founder of the best-selling United We Stand fanzine)
    31. Paper (independent magazine)
    32. Jason Pettigrove (UEFA accredited journalist and published football author), Ashwin Raman (football writer)
    33. Robert Redmond (contributor for SportsJOE.ie)
    34. Gert Remmel (football analyst at Finnish sports magazine, Elmo, and head coach of Pafos FC Under-19)
    35. Graham Ruthven (freelance football writer for various publishers)
    36. Paul Sarahs (freelance journalist)
    37. Joel Slagle (contributor for Football Paradise)
    38. Oli Stein (journalist)
    39. Karan Tejwani (sports book writer and co-founder of Football Chronicle)
    40. Parashar Thanki (contributor for Football Paradise)
    41. Rahul Warrier (freelance football writer and Head of Online at Forge Press)
    42. Chris Wheatley (journalist)
    43. Laurie Whitwell (journalist for The Athletic and 2019 Sports Journalists’ Association Awards nominee)
    44. Igor Zelenitsyn (journalist)
    45. Jordi Alba (2012 European Champion)
    46. Dani Alves (most-decorated footballer of all time)
    47. Joey Barton (footballer)
    48. Alan Brazil (footballer)
    49. Antonio Cassano (footballer)
    50. Sunil Chhetri (‘Asian Icon’ and current captain of the India national team)
    51. Sergiño Dest (Barcelona teammate)
    52. Ángel Di María (compatriot)
    53. Paulo Dybala (another compatriot)
    54. Samuel Eto’o (footballer)
    55. Cesc Fàbregas (World Cup winner)
    56. Gennaro Gattuso (footballer and coach)
    57. Mario Gómez (footballer)
    58. Markus Halsti (former Finland international)
    59. Eden Hazard (footballer)
    60. Ashley Hunter (footballer)
    61. Mauro Icardi (two-time Capocannoniere winner)
    62. Joaquín (Real Betis club legend)
    63. Gary Lineker (Golden Boot winner and English Football Hall of Fame inductee)
    64. David Luiz (footballer)
    65. Pedro (footballer, born 1987)
    66. Gerard Piqué (footballer)
    67. Carles Puyol (long-time Barcelona captain)
    68. Ivan Rakitić (footballer)
    69. Marcus Rashford (philanthropist and eFootball PES 2021 cover star)
    70. John Arne Riise (footballer)
    71. Wayne Rooney (footballer)
    72. Dean Saunders (footballer)
    73. Alan Shearer (footballer)
    74. Alan Smith (former footballer and current pundit at Sky Sports)
    75. Marc-André ter Stegen (footballer)
    76. John Terry (footballer)
    77. Arda Turan (footballer)
    78. David Villa (footballer)
    79. Xavi (one of the greatest midfielders ever)

    Then we can move on to Pele and Maradona, and you can make excuses for why they have more votes, too.
     
  7. Madmick Zugzwang Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I mean, it's easy to see why soccer fans are dumb enough to believe a D-level athlete like Ronaldo could be Jordan's equal. It's because they are athletically handicapped themselves. I don't know what about this sport draws them, but it's like a light to bugs in the night, except the bugs are a race of hunchback mutants with no explosiveness or power or natural physical talent whatsoever. They were so impressed by his jump to head a ball in a game once that these dopes actually offered £1000 ($1350 USD) to anyone on the street who could actually reproduce his "feat", LMFAO:

    (2.65m = 8'8")


    I giggle at the thought of the gobsmacked countenances of Americans casually walking down the street who might have witnessed this would have adorned. Their faces would be frozen agape, stupefied, wondering if it was some kind of prank...like, is Ashton Kutcher about to jump out?

    {<jordan}{<doc}<{RoseRun}><{walkerwhut}><{MingNope}><bball1>{<jordan}
     
  8. SSgt Dickweed Red Belt

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    Thanks to marketing, endorsements and most of all, Space Jam.
     
  9. SSgt Dickweed Red Belt

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    Like I said, Basketball is a sport competitively played by height outliers in 10 countries in the 90's, and maybe 25 by today standards. No comparison to football. Hell, footy is even the mot played sport in the US until a certain age.

    And by design Basketball eliminates non-height outliers from excelling in the sport. Here's MJ with his basketball idol:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. SSgt Dickweed Red Belt

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    You have the weirdest taste in doing a lot of effort just to troll.
     
  11. nicapica Purple Belt

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    Lol at soccer heads. “The World Cup means nothing” and yet it means everything at the same damn time.
     
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  12. Jose Beehive No.1 Soldier Of God Gif User

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    To be fair the GOAT in basketball is fairly debatable too though.
     
  13. Jose Beehive No.1 Soldier Of God Gif User

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    I've bolded everyone who would have a Barcelona/Argentina bias, not certain with most of the journalists, but then theres others who would have an Anti Manchester United Bias like Souness, Shearer, Terry, Riise, Luiz, Hazard, Barton, Wenger.. So basically around half the list are obviously going to pick Messi and the ones who wouldn't are mostly journalists.

    There has to be something in Ronaldo having rival team fans hate him, Lisbon have Benfica, United have Liverpool, City, Leeds, Arsenal, Chelsea, Madrid have Barcelona and Atletico, and Juve have Inter, Torino, Roma, Milan and kind of Napoli... As apposed to Messi just really having Real Madrid and RCD Espanyol.

    When was the list taken? Messi has 17 games and 11 goals this year compared to the older Ronaldo's 15 goals in 13 games, just beaten the all time scorers record, and apparently the first player ever to score 15 goals in 15 straight seasons.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  14. Jackie Blue Gold Belt

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    Not nearly as much as in association football. Majority say Jordan, growing minority says LBJ. A very small minority says anyone else. Whereas with AF, there's never a majority, there are about 6 guys with a considerable amount of support, and the winner has like a 30% plurality and it varies depending on who you ask.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
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  15. Madmick Zugzwang Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    8'8" dog! He's practically a comic book superhero!!!
    [​IMG]

    Bro, if you took that challenge to the Venice Beach courts, you better take Bezos holding a checkbook with you.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. DS7 Bangkok Ready

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    But again that's not the point i was debating, the thing is that one is not "widely considered the best" because he's generation has another god tier all time great in Lionel Messi, who also has a strong argumento to be considered the GOAT. Which is something pretty unprecedent in sports history, it would be like having Pele and Maradona or Jordan and LeBron in the same era. Ronaldo and Messi aren't less impressive because of that. Also football has so much more competition, history and the talent pool is so much larger than the NBA that of course the "GOAT" in football won't ever be as consensus as basketball. Also FIFA would NEVER describe a player as the GOAT like the NBA has on their website with MJ simply because the NBA is a league, it's just different.

    Also one of the reasons MJ is the undisputed GOAT was because he transcended basketball, he was the reason the NBA grew so much onto other countries, he was the biggest sports star in the world. His brand is still the one that sells the most in the NBA today and he has been retired for 20 years so that aura no matter what no basketball player will ever surpass but that's not what TS was debating. It's who has been more impressive purely from what they have been doing on the court/pitch and on that regard it's very debatable between Jordan and Ronaldo or even Messi.

    The reason Jordan is widely regarded as the GOAT in the NBA is not just because of what he did as a player like i said above, his character transcended the NBA. But since LeBron gave the Cavs a title in 2016 it has been debated a lot by journalists, players, coaches. It's a debate whenever people like it or not.

    Of course, in the NBA you have one title and then a bunch of awards. In football you have several high level championships from different countries, Champions League, Euros, World Cup and in Basketball an individual player has more impact on the game than a footballer since they are only 5 and can be dominant on both ends of the court so it's easier. But that isn't a great argument to why Jordan has been more impressive than Ronaldo on what they have been doing purely from a skillset/career view which is the point of the thread. Regardless i do agree it's kinda of pointless debate
     
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  17. DS7 Bangkok Ready

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    Exactly. If Football was just all about one ring there would probably be a consensuos GOAT but it's way more competitive, much more talented pool and several important championships, records, awards and skill come into the place to debate it. The NBA has what? 15 teams? lol
     
  18. HydraCap3 #Brady Banned

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    soccer isn't even a real sport. it's fucking marathon running with a kickball and sometimes people accidentally kick it into a net.
     

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