International Who is more evil: Israel or Iran

I do believe that Nut n Yahoo is a psycho, a liar and a war criminal. It is a fact that Israeli leadership is responsible for more lives lost and more chaos than Iran by a longshot. Israeli leadership has probably influenced the US to not only invade Iraq but now war with Iran. Their leadership is evil imo and extremely dangerous. Why the US continues to be their pawn is beyond me. The American public should be absolutely furious. If not, they themselves are pawns and deserve to be played like puppets. I feel bad for both the people of Israel and Iran tbh. They all deserve better but are caught up in religious beef from way back that will never stop.
 
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Whippy McGee said:
If you're Gen X or older and said Israel... you're a fool and a coward or both.

We all remember Iran invading U.S. Soil taking U.S. Hostages for 444 days and screaming "Death to America". This was the lead story on the news casts ever single night for well over a year and we had a President that was a feckless pussy allowing it to continue.

While Reagan put his hand on the bible to take the oath, our hostages were in the air returning to America, because Iran feared real U.S. leadership. They never paid retribution for invading and seizing our embassy and imprisoning our citizens, simply for being Americans.

If Iran had put down their arms in the Middle East, there would have been peace. If Israel did, there would have been genocide.
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This guy. Using one piece of history to illustrate his narrative. Gtfo.

Why dont you give us the entire lesson as to why they took the hostages to begin with.

Then please do educate us on the long and painful history of Israeli occupation and the numerous chaotic things they have done or tried to do since their inception. Please do enlighten us if you truly know your history. Dont just give us cliff notes on 1 tiny part of it then insult us.

Please.
 
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Blayt7hh said:
So staggering that it’s pretty nonsensical. The Arab Spring was not caused by Israel. That happened organically with citizens that were fed up with living under shitty regimes that restricted freedom and kept them destitute
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No, the Arab spring was the result of massive funding of pro democracy groups across the north African world. Then the citizens rebelled against their regimes.

The same was true of the orange revolution in Ukraine.

Like a boulder being pushed off a hill. Sure it's gravity that carries it down, sure it was going to fall one day but it was pushed by someone.
 
Ezekiel 25:17 said:
I do believe that Nut n Yahoo is a psycho, a liar and a war criminal. It is a fact that Israeli leadership is responsible for more lives lost and more chaos than Iran by a longshot.
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My liberal friend have the same stance. I kept telling him just because one side is more effective, doesn't mean they're more evil.
 
That entire area is absolutely fucked, and has been ever since I was born.

I don't like any of them, including Hamas.
 
Flower2dPeople said:
My liberal friend have the same stance. I kept telling him just because one side is more effective, doesn't mean they're more evil.
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Hahahaha. Im far from liberal and I do understand my history my friend. If you are too numb to extract info that is public knowledge and weave it all together, there is no helping you. Effective in killing women and children? Effective in spreading lies, propoganda and hate? Effective in fooling the US into going after nations it doesnt vibe with? Effective. No. Defective. Yes. Agent Orange and Psycho Jew have defective minds and need to be extracted from their high horses before they cause more chaos.
 
Wrath of Foamy said:
That entire area is absolutely fucked, and has been ever since I was born.

I don't like any of them, including Hamas.
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Yeah, just build a wall around it, refuse to take any refugees and make everyone stay and scrap it out for whatever they believe in and see who wins imo. Just don't provide any Western help whatsoever.
 
Phlog said:
No, the Arab spring was the result of massive funding of pro democracy groups across the north African world. Then the citizens rebelled against their regimes.

The same was true of the orange revolution in Ukraine.

Like a boulder being pushed off a hill. Sure it's gravity that carries it down, sure it was going to fall one day but it was pushed by someone.
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Wrong. You have it backwards- we don’t plant the seeds of unrest on in any of those examples. It’s this western exceptionalism attitude that has you thinking we are the start of everything. We are not.

The unrest came first and that’s especially clear in your own example of the Orange revolution where it was kicked off by a corrupt election. For what your saying to be true we would have to be the ones that corrupted it, or have somehow convinced millions of people that they were mad about the corruption. What you’re seeing is support for something that is happening organically and drawing a conspiracy theory out of it.
 
Blayt7hh said:
Wrong. You have it backwards- we don’t plant the seeds of unrest on in any of those examples. It’s this western exceptionalism attitude that has you thinking we are the start of everything. We are not.

The unrest came first and that’s especially clear in your own example of the Orange revolution where it was kicked off by a corrupt election. For what your saying to be true we would have to be the ones that corrupted it, or have somehow convinced millions of people that they were mad about the corruption. What you’re seeing is support for something that is happening organically and drawing a conspiracy theory out of it.
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It's not a conspiracy theory it's well known, the funding was reported.

Former US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland stated in 2013 that the United States had invested $5 billion to develop democratic processes and reforms in Ukraine.

That's a staggering amount of money.and only one route for this influence.
 
Phlog said:
It's not a conspiracy theory it's well known, the funding was reported.

Former US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland stated in 2013 that the United States had invested $5 billion to develop democratic processes and reforms in Ukraine.

That's a staggering amount of money.and only one route for this influence.
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The orange revolution was in 2004 and you cited 2013 funding? I also never said that we didn’t fund anything. I’m pushing back on this idea that we somehow made all these people want to revolt. We didn’t. Their shitty government and living conditions did that.
 
Blayt7hh said:
The orange revolution was in 2004 and you cited 2013 funding? I also never said that we didn’t fund anything. I’m pushing back on this idea that we somehow made all these people want to revolt. We didn’t. Their shitty government and living conditions did that.
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The statement was made in 2013, the finding was from 1991.

You can suggest the funding of pro democracy movements is inconsequential but the evidence is to the contrary.

I clearly stated the money was a contributing factor, like gasoline added to a bonfire before the match.
 
Phlog said:
The statement was made in 2013, the finding was from 1991
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So to you, you really think that we convinced the average person in Ukraine that democracy and capitalism were good and they didn’t come to that conclusion on their own. We then orchestrated the corrupt elections of 2004 so that they would be outraged by it?
 
Blayt7hh said:
So to you, you really think that we convinced the average person in Ukraine that democracy and capitalism were good and they didn’t come to that conclusion on their own. We then orchestrated the corrupt elections of 2004 so that they would be outraged by it?
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I edited my previous answer to more fully answer you. You're arguing with your own straw man.

We spent a lot of money to uncover political corruption. You'd have to be retarded to think there wasn't a appetite for change.
 
Phlog said:
I edited my previous answer to more fully answer you. You're arguing with your own straw man.

We spent a lot of money to uncover political corruption. You'd have to be retarded to think there wasn't a appetite for change.
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I’m not arguing a strawman. You are suggesting a very western centric view of things that happened and then saying “money”. I’m not saying we didn’t influence anything. You started out by saying we were essentially behind it all as if the people of these countries were mislead or wouldn’t have thought of this in their own, and I don’t believe that.

What you’re saying is me doing a strawman is not that. That “strawman” is me pointing out everything that has to be involved for this to be the conspiracy you believe it to be. If you don’t think all that happened, then maybe you should reconsider your position
 
Blayt7hh said:
I’m not arguing a strawman. You are suggesting a very western centric view of things that happened and then saying “money”. I’m not saying we didn’t influence anything. You started out by saying we were essentially behind it all as if the people of these countries were mislead or wouldn’t have thought of this in their own, and I don’t believe that.

What you’re saying is me doing a strawman is not that. That “strawman” is me pointing out everything that has to be involved for this to be the conspiracy you believe it to be. If you don’t think all that happened, then maybe you should reconsider your position
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My position all along has been that the funding was key in bringing discontent to the fore in the Arab spring and the orange revolution. I quote:

"Like a boulder being pushed off a hill. Sure it's gravity that carries it down, sure it was going to fall one day but it was pushed by someone."

"I clearly stated the money was a contributing factor, like gasoline added to a bonfire before the match."

Is what I'm saying a western centric point of view? Well, the west invested billions in the project so I guess it means it's a western view. But Russia also believes the west was instrumental in both revolutions. I think that means that it's a world view.

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps everyone spending their money is wrong and really none of it has a significant effect. Lol.
 
Phlog said:
My position all along has been that the funding was key in bringing discontent to the fore in the Arab spring and the orange revolution. I quote:

"Like a boulder being pushed off a hill. Sure it's gravity that carries it down, sure it was going to fall one day but it was pushed by someone."

"I clearly stated the money was a contributing factor, like gasoline added to a bonfire before the match."

Is what I'm saying a western centric point of view? Well, the west invested billions in the project so I guess it means it's a western view. But Russia also believes the west was instrumental in both revolutions. I think that means that it's a world view.

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps everyone spending their money is wrong and really none of it has a significant effect. Lol.
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The gasoline analogy is more appropriate. Yes the money helped them. But it wasn’t the kindling nor was it the match. You want to call it an accelerant, then sure

The rock and gravity one is not because it implies they never would have done it without the west, which is the idea of been pushing back against. To think that the west was the reason this happened implies that it was nefarious and these people weren’t making the decisions themselves. This is the shitty logic Russia uses to argue the legality of its invasion

Whether the were wrong or not, Ukraine was certainly trending west and if they survive this war with Russia will be ideologically western from here out. Arab Spring mostly failed so I guess that was a waste of money. Lol
 
Iran leadership not the people. By a country fucking mile. It shouldn't even be discussed. Israel isn't funding terrorists all across the region and even further beyond. No Jew is going to a drive a fucking van into civilians in the west. The Mullahs live in a fucking warped fantasy land, they are a death cult, thankfully Khomeini had a little taste and realised maybe he doesn't want his "72 virgins" just yet (underage girls, by the way. That's what it is. As proscribed their prophet himself).
 
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