Who has the greater legacy Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather Jr.?

[PUO3]

yup, once you beat the man you are superior to him, its really lame plus he is undefeated, Pacquiao will never be able to surpass Floyds legacy, he can unify against Crawford and Spence and be undisputed and still cant do it because Floyd already beat him and is undefeated.

People need to stop being emotional and think rationally.

I dont think a heads up fight automatically qualifies as the better fighter overall for a career. But in this case it certainly adds another point to Floyds case.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

Its Floyd. Fought and beat everyone and didnt lose. Fought and beat the guy in question.

Its quite ridiculous to pick Manny tbh.

i don't really agree tbh

Yeah I think I'd have Floyd ahead probably. But I don't agree that there is a supreme gap between them.

Manny has better wins imo
Yeah Floyd didn't lose. Was that also partly matchmaking? sure. And greatness of course.

You have to give it to Floyd because he didn't lose, but there are fighters ahead of him that did lose imo. And there are fighters who lost to certain guys that they are ahead of.

So. I don't think it's so wide apart

 

[PUO3]

i don't really agree tbh

Yeah I think I'd have Floyd ahead probably. But I don't agree that there is a supreme gap between them.

Manny has better wins imo
Yeah Floyd didn't lose. Was that also partly matchmaking? sure. And greatness of course.

You have to give it to Floyd because he didn't lose, but there are fighters ahead of him that did lose imo. And there are fighters who lost to certain guys that they are ahead of.

So. I don't think it's so wide apart

It is wide in this instance. There are better fighters than Floyd that have lost, but how many ahead of him that lost as many times as Manny has? Cant think of one off the top of my head.

Their wins are extremely comparable. Their losses are not. Floyd won the head to head.

Imo its not close.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

It is wide in this instance. There are better fighters than Floyd that have lost, but how many ahead of him that lost as many times as Manny has? Cant think of one off the top of my head.

Their wins are extremely comparable. Their losses are not. Floyd won the head to head.

Imo its not close.

robinson lost 19 times
ali lost 5
armstrong lost 21
etc etc.

I don't think being undefeated is as great of an achievement as others do tbh. In 99% of cases it usually means you were matched up pretty carefully.

But with Floyd you do have to acknowledge he has some great wins and moments.

And I dunno. I mean. Marvin Hagler won the head to head with Duran but I'd rate Duran higher all time on a pound for pound list. Same with a Rocky Marciano beating Ezzard Charles. Ezzard rates higher. etc

 

[XThe GreatestX]

It is wide in this instance. There are better fighters than Floyd that have lost, but how many ahead of him that lost as many times as Manny has? Cant think of one off the top of my head.

Their wins are extremely comparable. Their losses are not. Floyd won the head to head.

Imo its not close.

and to add one last thing. I think Manny's wins at Featherweight over Barrera and Morales set him apart from Floyd in the wins category. Even the win over Margarito at 154 was a pretty impressive scalp for what it was

 

[PUO3]

robinson lost 19 times
ali lost 5
armstrong lost 21
etc etc.

I don't think being undefeated is as great of an achievement as others do tbh. In 99% of cases it usually means you were matched up pretty carefully.

But with Floyd you do have to acknowledge he has some great wins and moments.

And I dunno. I mean. Marvin Hagler won the head to head with Duran but I'd rate Duran higher all time on a pound for pound list. Same with a Rocky Marciano beating Ezzard Charles. Ezzard rates higher. etc

Again in this instance I dont see an argument that makes it close. Their resumes are very similar for wins, one has multiple losses, and lost the head to head fight.

Youre listing examples that make sense for ranking one fighter over the other, but I just dont see the case for applying that to Manny.

 

[TidWell]

I dont think a heads up fight automatically qualifies as the better fighter overall for a career. But in this case it certainly adds another point to Floyds case.

True, also we cannot forget Floyd handed Canelo his first loss, and also Canelo is widely considered the man in boxing right now. Floyd beat the two guys who were considered the man Pacquiao and Canelo. We have to also remember nobody ever dominated Juan Manuel Marquez the way Floyd did. Pacquiao struggles with umm 4 times.
People are way too emotional when it comes to this, they hate Floyd so much.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

Again in this instance I dont see an argument that makes it close. Their resumes are very similar for wins, one has multiple losses, and lost the head to head fight.

Youre listing examples that make sense for ranking one fighter over the other, but I just dont see the case for applying that to Manny.

well, i suppose the argument for ranking manny over floyd (even if I don't necessarily agree with it) is that

(1) Manny has better wins. Dominated a talent rich 126 pound division in particular before moving up the weights. Beat essentially the same guys that Floyd did in the middle of their careers (or primes I guess). Did lose to Floyd eventually and Marquez but has multiple wins over Marquez. Towards the end of their careers probably fought and was beating tougher opposition as well. I think history is gonna look pretty fondly of Pacquiao's win over Thurman in particular

(2) I think they also beat a lot of the same guys tbh. I think there are some cases where Floyd beat the better version of the guy (Shane Mosley and maybe Oscar?) and some cases where Manny beat the better version of the guy (Cotto and Hatton and probably Marquez at 126).

couple of washes where they fought different guys Floyd with Maidana, Corrales, Guerrero and Ortiz etc. and Manny with Margarito, Bradley, Rios, Clottey etc.

(3) And I think when it comes to losses, yes Floyd never lost. So that's a feather in his cap. And he beat Manny. Another feather in his cap.

Which is probably why I'd rate him ahead of Manny slightly. But if I was making an argument that that didn't matter as much, I would say there are plenty of instances of guys who are undefeated beating someone who simply has better wins despite having more losses. For example Joe Calzaghe is not ranked ahead of a guy like Bernard Hopkins. Or I suppose the Rocky Marciano/Ezzard Charles example is probably the one that helps support the point the most

But I'd agree with you floyd is ahead. I just don't think it's very wide. and in 100 years when we're all gone, I wouldn't be surprised if people rated Manny higher

 

[TidWell]

It is wide in this instance. There are better fighters than Floyd that have lost, but how many ahead of him that lost as many times as Manny has? Cant think of one off the top of my head.

Their wins are extremely comparable. Their losses are not. Floyd won the head to head.

Imo its not close.

This right here, and PUO3 respects Pac-Man, so you guys can’t cry hater, he is speaking fairly and rationally.

 

[Streeter]

Right now Floyd has the better legacy. In 20 years IMO pac will have the better legacy as his fights are fun to watch while May's are boring g for most. Add that May osnt exactly a good guy.

 

[UnicornNinjas]

My gut says Manny b/c he did more damage at the lower weights and showed his longevity at the elite level by beating Thurman, but Floyd has the W over Pac and he retired undefeated so he probably leapfrogs him based on that alone.

I'm only beginning to really appreciate the fact that I got to watch them in their era. 147 is more interesting now that they're mostly out of the picture, but I don't think any of the current top dogs could carry either of their jockstraps in their respective primes.

 

[burningspear]

Right now Floyd has the better legacy. In 20 years IMO pac will have the better legacy as his fights are fun to watch while May's are boring g for most. Add that May osnt exactly a good guy.

Yeah, we all knew what to expect from each, they were both special in different ways. Manny's fights are compulsive for repeat viewings, for most when they've seen Floyd out point someone, thats it. As for who's greater, like you say in 10-20 years will be interesting how they settle in amongst the other greats.

 

[don't quote me!]

Towards the end of their careers probably fought and was beating tougher opposition as well. I think history is gonna look pretty fondly of Pacquiao's win over Thurman in particular

But I'd agree with you floyd is ahead. I just don't think it's very wide. and in 100 years when we're all gone, I wouldn't be surprised if people rated Manny higher

Whilst I agree with your conclusion

I disagree with your workings, I'm not sure how Manny has fought and beaten better opposition at the end of his career. Depends where we are drawing the line. Thurman was a big scalp, especially in the manner manny did it in, but is not a bigger scalp than Floyd's win over pacquaio himself, for manny to finish stronger than floyd, he needs a win as big, that would mean Crawford and he has already ducked that one.

I also think Floyd's career may begin to look even better than it does now, as the yrs roll by. The longer Canelo reigns with 1 loss on his record, the better floyd looks

 

[XThe GreatestX]

Whilst I agree with your conclusion

I disagree with your workings, I'm not sure how Manny has fought and beaten better opposition at the end of his career. Depends where we are drawing the line. Thurman was a big scalp, especially in the manner manny did it in, but is not a bigger scalp than Floyd's win over pacquaio himself, for manny to finish stronger than floyd, he needs a win as big, that would mean Crawford and he has already ducked that one.

I also think Floyd's career may begin to look even better than it does now, as the yrs roll by. The longer Canelo reigns with 1 loss on his record, the better floyd looks

Yeah true. Canelo is also gonna look great.

I think though if i was comparing say Maidana, Berto and McGregor

to Broner, Bradley, Matty Thurman.

You probably have to lean in favor of Pac there right?

 

[don't quote me!]

Yeah true. Canelo is also gonna look great.

I think though if i was comparing say Maidana, Berto and McGregor

to Broner, Bradley, Matty Thurman.

You probably have to lean in favor of Pac there right?

Sure, but that is a slightly slanted list, inbetween maidana and berto is pacquiao and that changes everything.

If you say; Manny has shown greater longevity than floyd, by beating Thurman and becoming a champ at 40, that is a more convincing pro manny argument.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

Sure, but that is a slightly slanted list, inbetween maidana and berto is pacquiao and that changes everything.

If you say; Manny has shown greater longevity than floyd, by beating Thurman and becoming a champ at 40, that is a more convincing pro manny argument.

that's a good point. I was trying to include other guys with the list


but that is a good point.

 

[PUO3]

Sure, but that is a slightly slanted list, inbetween maidana and berto is pacquiao and that changes everything.

If you say; Manny has shown greater longevity than floyd, by beating Thurman and becoming a champ at 40, that is a more convincing pro manny argument.

The thing that doesnt get acknowledged enough, imo, is that many Floyd critics made a narrative that Floyd waited until Manny was washed up before he fought him. Well, Manny is still beating top contenders whereas Floyd looked old in his last outings and retired.

It makes the win over Manny that much more impressive for me.

 

[PUO3]

Cheers to a quality discussion on these two. Far cry from the shit that flooded the forum a while back between the two fanbases. Lord those threads were awful.

 

[burningspear]

The thing that doesnt get acknowledged enough, imo, is that many Floyd critics made a narrative that Floyd waited until Manny was washed up before he fought him. Well, Manny is still beating top contenders whereas Floyd looked old in his last outings and retired.

It makes the win over Manny that much more impressive for me.

Yeah, the Thurman fight sort of killed that narrative. Even if that was the plan, didnt work out that way. And the injury? Whats the consensus, did it influence the fight, did Manny say it influenced the fight?

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Floyd, by quite a lot IMO.

Not only is he better, both skill and record... but how many young boxers are going to try and copy Floyd's style, vs how many gonna copy Manny's. That is the true legacy for a boxer IMO. You can already see it in the new generations.