Who do you think are the worst presidents ever?

you're witnessing it, George W Bush was bad as well

having said that, history (real history) will not be good for obama

Really? Instigating free healthcare for the poor, drawing back overseas offense and having a measured approach to foreign policy. Being a genuine statesman, especially compared to that simian he took over from.

Never forget the global financial meltdown in 2008 was caused by the fucking bankers, not our respective governments.

History will be just fine for Obama.
 
Wait hold on a second. You have some good points here and I know that most people say Wilson is one of the worst, but are you saying that he was bad because he gave women the right to vote?

Wilson is generally considered one of the top 10 presidents ever, and the comments about the 16th and 17th Amendments were also nutty, and the Fed comments were just completely ignorant.

Really? Instigating free healthcare for the poor, drawing back overseas offense and having a measured approach to foreign policy. Being a genuine statesman, especially compared to that simian he took over from.

Never forget the global financial meltdown in 2008 was caused by the fucking bankers, not our respective governments.

History will be just fine for Obama.

Obama will go down in history as one of the greatest presidents ever. At this point, it's just hackery that would cause anyone to deny it.
 
Yes. I do not think women ought to have the right to vote. Women are not politically as engaged/involved as men on average, and generally don't think in terms of reason/justice as men do. I take this belief from Feminists, who speak of "women's ways" of knowing (see contemporary Feminist Ethics).

So your mom is retarded?
 
Anyway, posing the question here is a waste of time, IMO. Putting aside the difficulty of ranking presidents at all, to really answer the question in a unique way (that is, without reference to lists compiled by various polls), one would need serious familiarity with all presidents, which pretty much no one has.

If you do look at lists, Buchanan, Pierce, Harding, Hoover, Grant, Nixon, and Bush are usually at or near the bottom. IMO, with what little I know, I think Nixon might be underrated. He was certainly a terrible human being who brought shame to the office, but he had a pretty good list of accomplishments.
 
In my lifetime, obviously Bush Jr. Guy had no business being there and proved it time and time again.

The Obama hate is ridiculous.
 
Either Buchanan or Wilson.
 
Wilson is generally considered one of the top 10 presidents ever, and the comments about the 16th and 17th Amendments were also nutty, and the Fed comments were just completely ignorant.



Obama will go down in history as one of the greatest presidents ever. At this point, it's just hackery that would cause anyone to deny it.


No doubt, Obama is a great president.

- Reform Healthcare (Health care cost is declining)
- Oversee the end of two bs war
- Brought Osama to justice and give a big middle fingers to terrorist
- Steer us from economic collapse, stock market is highest ever, strongest economy in the world with a rise in GDP growth rate
- Unemployment is below 6%
- Cut the national deficit by half
- Gas Price is under $2 in certain states (Yeah, i know he doesn't have full control over this but people like to bitch about gas price so I just left in there lol.)
- Wrecking Russia economy with sanctions and giving a middle finger to Putin. (The sanction plays a role in driving oil price down).

He did all of these while being stonewall by a House Republican majority for the past four years. Don't get me wrong, he isn't perfect since he still has't fix that huge gap in income inequality. However, there is no denying that he did great.
 
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In my lifetime, obviously Bush Jr. Guy had no business being there and proved it time and time again.

The Obama hate is ridiculous.

Agreed

I have no no doubt that history revisonists will look upon Obama's reign as generally positive.

Whoever said FDR was one of the worst presidents of all time is wrong on all counts. The guy faced one of the most important economic and social crises in the country's history and were it not for some of his policies the country could have been on the edge of a revolution.
 
It has to be Buchanan or A. Johnson. Few others even come close.
 
Haha, will do.


On topic, I nominate Bush Jr's administration (including Cheney, Rumsfeld etc as Bush took more vacation than any other president and they were running shit while he was down on the ranch):

- Illegally invaded and occupied a foreign country (war crime).
- Lied to the UN to justify said illegal "war".
- Started up Guantanamo Bay and other detention camps which were rife with torture and abuses of the Geneva Convention.
- Came to power with the country billions of dollars in surplus. Left it trillions of dollars in debt.
- Allowed closed bid contracts to be assigned to companies like Halliburton for the reconstruction of Iraq and Katrina (I imagine Cheney is largely to blame for this), effectively allowing them to set their own price. Huge funneling of public wealth to private companies.
- Response to Katrina was abysmal and as bungled as can be.
- Gutted numerous important social services by hiding amendments in other bills and also signing in many downright Orwellian things like "No Child Left Behind", which basically ensured many children would be left behind.

I'm sure there's more to his laundry list of awful fuckery. It should also be noted all the above is just off the top of my head, based on shit I read years ago.

I had my "political awakening" during the Bush years. I was in my late teens/early twenties... and that was all the politics I could handle, really. Once the shit that administration stopped shocking me, I pretty much quit following politics.

Shit is poison.

Respectfully, I think you've made some serious errors here.

First: The Iraq war was not an "illegal war". There is no such thing. A war without UN approval is not illegal. There was no violation of US or even international war by the actions taken.

Secondly: There was no lying in the Iraq war. There was a lack of intelligence, and the entire enterprise was stupid, but it was not based on a lie. The WMDs were in fact found, just in small caches rather than large stock piles.

Three: There has been no ruling to indicate that terrorists are under geneva convention rules. In fact, as they are mercenary forces, they are explicitly NOT Covered under the Geneva Convention. Mercenaries are not included in such treaties, and can actually be executed summarily.

Four: The country may have started with a surplus, but Clinton blew up the economy in the late 90s with the internet bubble. Admittedly, Bush wasted trillions on a war (Iraq) that has proven disastrous.

Five: Katrina was under water. The government can't really help a city that is under water. Moreover, the populace of New Orleans was primarily the reason for hte problems to follow, what with the Super Rape Dome, mass looting of non-essentials (TV and other such things), and literally shooting at US army corps of engineer rescue helicopters. Katrina wasn't a problem for the US government, it was a failure of a broken city filled with terrible people who literally ignored their HUGE, GAPING DISASTER PREPARATION HOLES for 30 god damn years.

Six: No Child Left Behind has, by most measures, been succesful.

George W. Bush was not an amazing president, but he wasn't anywhere near the worst. I'd put him firmly in the middle of the pack for presidents, about equidistant from worst to best.
 
Obama will go down in history as one of the greatest presidents ever. At this point, it's just hackery that would cause anyone to deny it.

i think you have forgotten he was never eligible to hold the office in the first place. as a kenyan holding our highest office, he is historically the worst by default regardless of his accomplishments.
 
Wilson is generally considered one of the top 10 presidents ever, and the comments about the 16th and 17th Amendments were also nutty, and the Fed comments were just completely ignorant.

I do not see how you, as a far Left guy, can speak well of Wilson. Merely on matters of race, you should denounce him (as you are fond of denouncing the right) as probably the single most racist president who ever ran the country.

As I said: This guy was quite literally a Confederate. He opened up Birth of a Nation. He REINSTITUTED military segregation, and was the head of the openly racist Democratic party at the height of its KKK era.

The 16th amendment has given us an income tax which is miserably bad. It is extremely regressive, punishing the people who work for a living, while favouring those who gain their money from alternative sources. We gave up tariffs and liquor taxes (as well as other sane, non-regressive taxes) for a burden that quite literally punishes productive labour.

The 17th amendment broke the federal system we instituted. Direct election of senators has taken state legislatures out of the consideration of government on the national level, paralyzing the capacity for states to actually affect changes in Washington. The house of representatives was the representation of the people directly, whereas the senate was meant to be the voice of the states. As state elections are inherently more efficient in dealing with the interests of individuals in a given state, we are left with a senate that does not correspond as directly to the interests of their state as they should be.

Even a cursory knowledge of the Federal Reserve's failure to cap inflation can be discerned by a history of inflation in the United States. Inflation was moreorless flat from the revolutionary period to 1913, whereas it has gone up over 2000 times since then. What would cost a dollar in 1913 costs 27.00 today!

You're factually incorrect if you think the Federal Reserve has met its chief reason for existence.

But his most spectacular failure is the sacrifice of ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND AMERICAN LIVES for a war which served NO STRATEGIC IMPORTANCE to the United States' interests.

Not a single bit!

The Great War was a war that exclusively concerned Europe. America sacrificed a HUNDRED THOUSAND MEN and spent BILLIONS to get involved in a war which we had no dog in the game at all. A victory of the Central Powers would not have hurt the United States in the least. Our relationship with Germany prior to the war was friendly, and our chief ally before the war, Russia, was defeated well before we even involved ourself, so we cannot even say we assisted them.

Obama will go down in history as one of the greatest presidents ever. At this point, it's just hackery that would cause anyone to deny it.

Trillions upon trillions in debt.

Quite literally breaking the healthcare system with massive costs.

The worst recovery in the history of the United States.

Spectacular foreign policy failures, including the wholescale loss of two wars.

And quite frankly a usurpation of the immigration powers of congress.

Barrack Obama will be very lucky not to be impeached for his failures.
 
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I do not see how you, as a far Left guy, can speak well of Wilson.

I'm not a far left guy, and I noted that he's generally ranked in the top 10, which is a true statement.

Even a cursory knowledge of the Federal Reserve's failure to cap inflation can be discerned by a history of inflation in the United States.

The Fed's goal is not to stop inflation (which would be ruinous to the economy and serve no purpose anyway). Inflation has seen unprecedented stability since 1984, though (nothing in the previous history comes close).

Inflation was moreorless flat from the revolutionary period to 1913, whereas it has gone up over 2000 times since then. What would cost a dollar in 1913 costs 27.00 today!

Um, no, inflation was not "more or less flat" in that period. It had wild up and down swings, which caused all kinds of havoc with the economy, though it averaged out to be flatish (your comment is like telling someone with one foot in a fire and one in a block of ice that he's comfortable on average). And what is your last sentence supposed to actually mean? People's wages rise with inflation (obviously far above it over that period). It doesn't change anyone's standard of living except to the extent that it affects behavior (you don't think the median American would have their own private jets and Bentley if there were no inflation, do you?).

You're factually incorrect if you think the Federal Reserve has met its chief reason for existence.

Its chief reason for existence was to provide a safer, more flexible, more stable financial and monetary system. And obviously it has done that.

Trillions upon trillions in debt.

What are you even talking about? The net effect of his policy initiatives is a massive reduction in debt.

Quite literally breaking the healthcare system with massive costs.

Major healthcare reform, leading to a huge reduction in debt, long-term healthcare costs, improvement in healthcare outcomes for Americans, and a large reduction in the number of uninsured Americans.

The worst recovery in the history of the United States.

The best recovery from the GFC in the developed world, preventing another Great Depression after events that were more serious than those that triggered the last one.

Spectacular foreign policy failures, including the wholescale loss of two wars.

Major foreign-policy successes.

And quite frankly a usurpation of the immigration powers of congress.

Major immigration reform, yes. There's a lot more you could have mentioned.

Barrack Obama will be very lucky not to be impeached for his failures.

It would be great if the GOP tried to frivolously impeach a second straight Democratic president. Would show the world what most of us already know--that the party is intellectually dead, contemptuous of American ideals, and uncommonly ungentlemanly to boot.
 
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