Who are these mythical "street fighters" who can supposedly defeat all martial arts?

[seatea]

This is why I only insult people at the self-help section of book stores, because the people with real emotional problems are never trying to get help for it.

*nods sagely* Words to live by.

 

[orangeclay]

Untrained doesn't mean un-practiced. As some folks have pointed out depending on where you grow up, you may have had loads of practice being in actual fights. And, the person training may have had no experience in an actual fight.

The feel, for lack of a better word, of being in fight with rules and refs is quite different than fighting on the street. I am not saying that any certain technique taught wouldn't work on the street just that being in a street fight isn't like sparring in the gym and it is possible the person you are fighting has much more experience being in a street fight than the trained person does.

 

[Fightshopca]

Things do get very different once there are no rules. Having said that one particular argument people use is that they can bite, scratch..etc. But they should also remember that a trained fighter can also do this as well as use their trained proper techniques. The other argument that people don't walk around in GI's all day can be countered by saying people don't walk around buck naked either. They usually have clothes on like pants, suits and shirts which you can grab. If not then, fighting a naked person would get kind of be awkward anyways.

 

[SAMURAI SPIRIT]

The term street-fighting has different meaning for different people. Americans imagine a bar-brawl that has spilled out into the street. Developing countries have different definition of it. I am thinking Karachi Pakistan and I can assure you GSP would get clubbed to death. The street fights there are just not fair in any way. Mob vs mobs or mob vs a single man with bats, clubs, furniture. When someone says BJJ will not save you on the streets then they are talking about a different kind of street on which the OP lived. I was part of a street fight in Karachi in which I defended myself against a small mob armed with bats and hockey sticks. Not only did I defend myself but chased them away too. After being hit a few times with bats, I had picked up animal poop from the road and no one wanted it on their clothes.

 

[Ryo]

Kimura got beat up by a pro wrestler.

You are mistaking getting beat with getting FAIRLY beat.

The problem with street altercations is that they are never fair, and no, frat boys fighting dont count as street fight.

No clue how kimura getting sucker punched and beaten up in a match that was supposed to be fake... Proves your point at all.

If kimura had decided to actually fight back instead of trying to figure out what the hell was going on and becoming a human punching bag... The fight probably would have went quite different.

I'm sure if kimura got in a street fight... He wouldn't stand there and let somebody knock his head off...

 

[seatea]

I'm sure if kimura got in a street fight... He wouldn't stand there and let somebody knock his head off...

According to his autobiography he beat up some GIs after the war who were getting rowdy. Through one of a bridge apparently.

I don't think Kimura was averse to tall tales however.

 

[Ryo]

Who says any of them were any good? This is the logical fallacy at work.

The samurai used JJJ to disarm sword and grapple on the battlefield so it must be good... I'm willing to be a lot of them died using those techniques. It was more of a "I lost my sword shit I hope this works...oops it didn't" kind of thing. Soldiers die, it's not a big deal and nobody ever said they lived to tell about it. Not to mention that the only people they ever fought were each other or some other asians.

Most of them only work on other little asian guys who agree to fight that way, Bruce Lee was the first to admit that.

Battlefields use weapons, so no bare hand MA was ever used on the battlefield, well not successfuly at any rate.

I suppose with all this bullshit you just spouted... You've got tons of historical evidence to back up everything you said?

"Most of them only work on little Asian guys who agree to fight that way"

You sound like a fucking racist. What way are we talking here? They fought and killed each other by the most effective means they had... Just like western army's. They used spears, swords, guns and anything else they could. Hand to hand combat was indeed very common on historical battlefields. There is a reason why wrestling with and without a weapon is so commonly taught historically in western and Asian countries. When you're fighting in somebody's face with a pole arm or a sword.... Fighting can turn quite savage and force a soldier to have to lay hands on the enemy. Both in japanese culture as well basically every western martial tradition I've seen teaches lots of grappling for the purpose of laying hands on another guy wearing armor and then throwing him down and sticking a knife or short sword into the weak points of his armor.

He'll... Hand to hand combat was quite common even in world war 1 ...

Your condescending attitude about how Asian Martial arts never worked and that they knew nothing about how to train soldiers reeks of racism to me.

It only works on other Asians? I suppose jiu-jitsu only works on other tiny weak little Asians who too stupid to fight like westerners huh?

 

[nooper]

John Danaher, who used to be a bouncer, said that a bit of training in BJJ or Judo makes it embarrassingly easy to beat an untrained person in a street fight.

I think this is the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrGjeyxYJjA

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I dunno if you've ever actually trained in grappling, but generally, a fit athletic guy coming into a gym with no experience except for drunk wrestling with his mates can beat a lot of people who have trained for a year. Some people get super depressed when this happens, but if anyone has any basic knowledge about how the body works, is fit from another sport and generally has common sense, they can beat a lot of people who are trained.
Spazzing out as much as people say to not do it, actually wins a lot of street fights. I'm willing to bet that Taliban terrorist is a crazy ass mofo who is off the wall.

Also, if either of them used common sense they wouldn't started grappling like retards in a warzone.

unless the weight discrancy and strengh is HUGE, and I mean over 20 kilos, adn the rookie is some kind of gifted dude going vs some not so gifted person, then Ive never seen this happen, never. They may present some problems, becasue a white belt still doesnt have technique down to finish some a very strong person. But beaten or control, nop. Now, give that guy some training, about 4 to 5 moths of solid basics, then it becomes a problem, specially no gi.

 

[triangle killer]

Is badr hari a street fighter?

 

[Rod1]

No clue how kimura getting sucker punched and beaten up in a match that was supposed to be fake... Proves your point at all.

If kimura had decided to actually fight back instead of trying to figure out what the hell was going on and becoming a human punching bag... The fight probably would have went quite different.

I'm sure if kimura got in a street fight... He wouldn't stand there and let somebody knock his head off...

Not sure how Kimura getting beat UNFAIRLY proves my point that even the greatest fighters can be beat UNFAIRLY?

 

[Ryo]

Not really. Nobody is invincible. I think most people understand that.I think its a rediculous example because it was not a street fight and kimura didn't even fight back. He still thought it was part of the work. He had already eaten several punches and kicks to the head by the time it was clear what was going

I think its common sense that if you don't fight back you can certainly get your ass kicked by a heavy weight wrestler....

 

[Rod1]

Not really. Nobody is invincible. I think most people understand that.I think its a rediculous example because it was not a street fight and kimura didn't even fight back. He still thought it was part of the work. He had already eaten several punches and kicks to the head by the time it was clear what was going

I think its common sense that if you don't fight back you can certainly get your ass kicked by a heavy weight wrestler....

Because all fights start with come at me bro as the crowd walks outside of the roadside bar and make a circle where the heroes fight at the tune of 80s music?

Most "street fights" or more properly street altercations where physical violence is involved start most of the time without warning.

 

[Ryo]

Because all fights start with come at me bro as the crowd walks outside of the roadside bar and make a circle where the heroes fight at the tune of 80s music?

Most "street fights" or more properly street altercations where physical violence is involved start most of the time without warning.

You are using an example where one guy thinks its. Game and gets clobbered without fighting back as an example...

I was a police officer for over two years... I seen numerous bullshit "street altercations" and not a single one of them involve one guy letting the other guy beat the shit out of him without running away or fighting back....

Also.... the majority of fights BY FAR could certainly have been avoided...

 

[Rod1]

You are using an example where one guy thinks its. Game and gets clobbered without fighting back as an example...

I was a police officer for over two years... I seen numerous bullshit "street altercations" and not a single one of them involve one guy letting the other guy beat the shit out of him without running away or fighting back....

Also.... the majority of fights BY FAR could certainly have been avoided...

Kimura didnt let the other guy beat him, he said he was powerless after the first strike which was treacherous, and thats the point.

One would assume that you would have plenty of warning when a fight is starting, a lot of times you simply dont.

And being a cop doesnt really tells much about fighting, for the most part if cops are called and people are still fighting its not that serious to begin with.

 

[A Muse of Fire]

It's that old definition game...what's a street fight. Most people here seems to think it's a bare hands confrontation where one person challenges another to a fight. Why does that matter so much to people? You're thinking more of a mugging or mob attack or rape, yeah in that case it's likely to be a weapon.

Kali can teach you to use an ASP baton effectively. The ASP has stopping power and reach, this is covered by single stick techniques. Still, it's the bread and butter stuff, I work basic counters and strikes on a heavy bag and spend most of my time practicing BJJ and MT.

Kali is it's not popular enough in the US to get the training time and it is mostly drills without sparring. However, the stick/baton is one weapon you don't need to be that skilled to be very effective.

A basic strategy would be to hit the hand causing him to drop the weapon, and come back from the opposite side with a strike to the neck.

I'd avoid the knife techniques, the prison style bum rush have the edge there. Knife on knife is very dangerous and lots of good people fail at that.

I don't want to get into an argument about what a street fight is.

What you are saying about about the asp baton is what my current teacher says... he has trained a little bit of everything but mostly the Japanese stuff.

I actually read a book written by prisoners on the subject of knife fighting, and it is indeed different than what was taught from my instructor or from what i have seen of kali. The grip was the same though.

I get the sense that in knive vs knive both people get hurt real bad, especially if both have some experience. It is hard to train because of that

 

[TheFakeMacoy]

This is who they are:

 

[Jack Handy jr]

Yeah their grappling is shit...a good white belt would whoop them.

MCMAP is shit...but then it's not supposed to be anything great.

They want to get the soldier's courage up so he'll fight and maybe have some useable skill. They can let off some steam MMA style and measure their dicks without killing each other.

Cops have a badge and a radio and a gun. That is why they win, most of them can't shoot or fight or run. Take away that cops badge and radio and I'll arrest him.

Soldiers win becuase they have M4 rifles, high tech weapons and 30 other guys and the Taleban are shit soldiers.

Probably the closest thing to H2H that matters to any solder these days is bayonet and that is basically a bunch of guys charging, again, if one of them dies it's no big deal.

Plenty of bodies.

The ARMY has recently embraced martial arts when I was in during the mid 90's all we got was a hip toss for half a day in basic and that was it. now that I am a LEO i'll tell you that we come in all shapes and sizes, so if you get the cop who's morbidly obese then with out his tools the average joe,street fighter, might take him. but there's the cops who do BJJ four times a week, in addition to weightlifting, and were HS wrestlers you'd prob get beaten down if you became non compliant to verbal commands. I guess if you wanted to test your kung fu esp against an leo it would def be a gamble lol

 

[magick]

Like when people say something like "Oh, triangles wont work in the street". Well, vs who? A typical street fighter will be put to sleep. But....a high level grappler or wrestler..who happens to be the opponent in a fight taking place "in the street" is different.

... People say they don't work because chances are you'll get attacked by the friends of the guy you're putting the triangle on.

Not because some random guy can just bust out of a submission attempt.

In short- you have it all wrong. People say BJJ doesn't "work" on the streets because it's designed to focus all your attention on a single individual and have you on the ground. You lose mobility on the ground. You are vulnerable to multiple people attacking you on the ground. If you're on your feet, at least you don't lose the second or two it takes you to get off the ground.

And rolling on the ground is completely different from rolling on the mats. This is a simple fact.

 

[Rod1]

... People say they don't work because chances are you'll get attacked by the friends of the guy you're putting the triangle on.

Not because some random guy can just bust out of a submission attempt.

In short- you have it all wrong. People say BJJ doesn't "work" on the streets because it's designed to focus all your attention on a single individual and have you on the ground. You lose mobility on the ground. You are vulnerable to multiple people attacking you on the ground. If you're on your feet, at least you don't lose the second or two it takes you to get off the ground.

And rolling on the ground is completely different from rolling on the mats. This is a simple fact.

I think people mistake unarmed combat is unreliable on the street, with BJJ doesnt works.

Its not just BJJ all trained individuals from all trained martial arts are vulnerable to violence on the street, weapons, ganging up, sucker blows etc etc. I could bring a non-stop stream of examples but Sherdog doesnt allows them.

Blagoi Ivanov for example, Maiquel Falcao is another.