Whittaker has a case to to be #2 greatest MW ever

[Hellowhosthat]

I mean if you compare the Bobby Knucks list from earlier to this one.

Evan Tanner
Yushin Okami
Nate Quarry
Travis Lutter
David Loiseau
Jorge Rivera
Jason Macdonald

There's absolutely no comparison.

 

[BFoe]

Franklin doesn't have a great resume at MW really, most of his better wins were actually at LHW.

LOL
Do you know Franklin's MW record? Are we gonna pretent that UFC was the top MW division in the planet with Loiseau and Quarry barely being ranked top10 worldwide challenging for the tittle?

It's highly arguable that Franklin has a better career than Whittaker including wins at 205, but based on his 7-3 record at MW alone, Rich doesnt even compare with Bobby.

Franklin has 2 title defenses, whereas Whitaker does not. Whitaker won the title from Yoel, and defended against Yoel. I don’t get into this whole “I feel that a win over Nate Quarry means less than a win over so-and-so...”
Whitaker can be ranked above Franklin all time when he exceeds his accomplishments. But I also understand that if we’re really looking at it, Franklin does have LHW and catchweight wins, so I’m fine with ranking him lower than he was in my list. But I have him above Whitaker.

 

[EnthusiastCultivator]

Izzy knocked him out twice

 

[markg171]

Because he’s got wins over Lindland, Franklin, Bisping, Rockhold, Dan Henderson twice, Aikayama and Nate Marquardt? I suppose if we were splitting hairs, a couple of those were catchweights. But Vitor is def one of the best MWs of all time. Whitaker has, what?—Jacare and Yoel Romero on his resume and not much else? The rest are middling wins like Gastelum, Brunson, Uriah Hall... c’mon man. In my book I’ll give him 1 successful title defense because it’s not his fault Yoel missed weight. But according to the record books, Whitaker didn’t have a single defense. And you’re ranking him above Franklin or Mousasi? No way.

Vitor has never been the #1 MW in the world. In fact he specifically failed to achieve that... twice.

It's ridiculous to rank him over Whittaker.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Franklin has 2 title defenses, whereas Whitaker does not. Whitaker won the title from Yoel, and defended against Yoel. I don’t get into this whole “I feel that a win over Nate Quarry means less than a win over so-and-so...”
Whitaker can be ranked above Franklin all time when he exceeds his accomplishments. But I also understand that if we’re really looking at it, Franklin does have LHW and catchweight wins, so I’m fine with ranking him lower than he was in my list. But I have him above Whitaker.

Nate Quarry probably ranks somewhere around Brad Tavares in terms of quality wins though, maybe not even that.

 

[tehMoose]

Mousasi’s resume just at MW > Whitaker’s. Mousasi has MW wins over Lombard, Kang, Manhoef, Jacare, Mark Munoz, Hendo, Phillipou, Leites, Santos, Vitor, Weidman, Uriah Hall, Schlemenko, Carvalho, Machida, plus Rory and Douglas Lima (who moved up for those fights obviously).
Mousasi’s middleweight resume shits all over Whitaker’s honestly.

This. They listed Hester on 7 fight win streak bro like he's some kind of elite fighter but Lima spanked him easily. And they try to shit on that Lima win, it doesn't count somehow LOL

Carvalho was on 15 fight win streak, Jacare on 10 fight win streak, Lombard went on a 24 fight win streak after he lost to Moose, Manhoef was on 5 fight KO streak and KTFO Hunt immediately after he lost to Moose. Leites also on a huge streak only lost a split to Bisping, Santos on 4 fight win streak etc etc

Too lazy to list them all but you get the point. Whittaker resume right now is not even close to Mousasi's record

 

[Hellowhosthat]

This. They listed Hester on 7 fight win streak bro like he's some kind of elite fighter but Lima spanked him easily. And they try to shit on that Lima win, it doesn't count somehow LOL

Carvalho was on 15 fight win streak, Jacare on 10 fight win streak, Lombard went on a 24 fight win streak after he lost to Moose, Manhoef was on 5 fight KO streak and KTFO Hunt immediately after he lost to Moose. Leites also on a huge streak only lost a split to Bisping, Santos on 4 fight win streak etc etc

Too lazy to list them all but you get the point. Whittaker resume right now is not even close to Mousasi's record

Lol what do you mean they? It's not a team sport, I just listed all of Rob's MW fights.

I'm comparing him to Franklin btw, not Mousasi.

 

[tehMoose]

Lol what do you mean they? It's not a team sport, I just listed all of Rob's MW fights.

I'm comparing him to Franklin btw, not Mousasi.

I'm speaking in general because I've seen this more than once on sherdog. This was not directed just to you. There is no way Rob has a better record at MW than Mousasi. I can agree that he has a better record at MW than Franklin tho

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I'm speaking in general because I've seen this more than once on sherdog. This was not directed just to you. There is no way Rob has a better record at MW than Mousasi. I can agree that he has a better record at MW than Franklin tho

Fair enough. Moose has a long and great resume for sure. I'm not sure he has A better win than Rob's win over Romero but he has him on volume.

Would have loved to have seen them fight.

 

[bubbleboyjones]

Adesanya and Whittaker fought a handful of common opponents at MW, all legit and not far removed from their prime:

Romero
Gastelum
Brunson
Tavares

> Whittaker shows to be the slighly superior fighter based on those fights, imo. Besides,

Adesnaya - Costa (KO), Vettori (SD)
Whittaker - Jacare (KO), Till, Canonier, Hall, Natal (UD)

I guess if Israel defends his tittle vs Whittaker and makes it look easy again I'll be hard to deny Adesanya's superior greatness.
If Bobby gets his revenge, there will be no discussion leff about who is the best behind Silva.

Whittaker MW record is not far from Anderson Silva at this point. Their top10 wins list in terms of caliber of competition is pretty even imo, Silva a better finisher.

Lacks title defenses. Ridiculous thread.

 

[accolyte1022]

Why are people so obsessed with GOAT talks after every event?

GOAT post.

 

[BFoe]

Vitor has never been the #1 MW in the world. In fact he specifically failed to achieve that... twice.

It's ridiculous to rank him over Whittaker.

I can see that. If we’re going to stick strictly to titles and title defenses though, that puts Bisping over Whitaker, would it not? Depending on how we view Yoel’s weight miss, both Bisping and Whitaker either had 1 defense, or Bisping is up 1-0. Plus Bisping’s overall resume is better. And I didn’t even have him in my Top 10 rough draft.

Nate Quarry probably ranks somewhere around Brad Tavares in terms of quality wins though, maybe not even that.

Hmm. Quarry is probably equivalent to Tavares, that’s not unfair. It’s a little tough because honestly Whitaker’s resume isn’t all that hot either, and a Franklin has a lot of his best wins outside the weight class. He’s got Yoel, and then what? Aging Jacare I guess. Till and Cannonier are...ok wins. Brunson and Tavares don’t mean much.
What sort of saves Whitaker in the comparison is that Franklin fought so many times outside the weight class. Are we not going to weigh Franklin’s wins over Wanderlei because it was a 190 or 195 pound catch? If not, that’s fine, and it would move rankings around. Doesn’t get Whitaker near the Top 5 though still.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I can see that. If we’re going to stick strictly to titles and title defenses though, that puts Bisping over Whitaker, would it not? Depending on how we view Yoel’s weight miss, both Bisping and Whitaker either had 1 defense, or Bisping is up 1-0. Plus Bisping’s overall resume is better. And I didn’t even have him in my Top 10 rough draft.

Hmm. Quarry is probably equivalent to Tavares, that’s not unfair. It’s a little tough because honestly Whitaker’s resume isn’t all that hot either, and a Franklin has a lot of his best wins outside the weight class. He’s got Yoel, and then what? Aging Jacare I guess. Till and Cannonier are...ok wins. Brunson and Tavares don’t mean much.
What sort of saves Whitaker in the comparison is that Franklin fought so many times outside the weight class. Are we not going to weigh Franklin’s wins over Wanderlei because it was a 190 or 195 pound catch? If not, that’s fine, and it would move rankings around. Doesn’t get Whitaker near the Top 5 though still.

Jacare was still pretty close to prime when he fought Rob. Romero was his only loss in the UFC at that point and that decision was highly debatable.

Brunson I think is a good win, probably better than any of Rich's MW wins aside from Tanner.

I don't count the Wanderlei fights because they weren't at MW as you say. Wanderlei was past prime by that point but to be fair so was Rich.

 

[BFoe]

Jacare was still pretty close to prime when he fought Rob. Romero was his only loss in the UFC at that point and that decision was highly debatable.

Brunson I think is a good win, probably better than any of Rich's MW wins aside from Tanner.

I don't count the Wanderlei fights because they weren't at MW as you say. Wanderlei was past prime by that point but to be fair so was Rich.

I don’t have a strong opinion on the Wandy fights. The one at 190 I don’t have a huge issue counting as it’s pretty close to MW. But maybe Franklin and Vitor should both be lower. Maybe a better list would be:
1. Anderson Silva
2. Gegard Mousasi
3. Dan Henderson
4. Israel Adesanya
5. Luke Rockhold
6. Chris Weidman
7. Robert Whitaker
8. Rich Franklin
9. Jacare Souza
10. Michael Bisping

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I don’t have a strong opinion on the Wandy fights. The one at 190 I don’t have a huge issue counting as it’s pretty close to MW. But maybe Franklin and Vitor should both be lower. Maybe a better list would be:
1. Anderson Silva
2. Gegard Mousasi
3. Dan Henderson
4. Israel Adesanya
5. Luke Rockhold
6. Chris Weidman
7. Robert Whitaker
8. Rich Franklin
9. Jacare Souza
10. Michael Bisping

I'd say Hendo is a bit high there too, tbh. He's another guy that hurt his individual division standings by splitting his wins over different divisions.

Not that there's anything wrong with that but when you're ranking guys in a specific division it is what it is.

 

[BFoe]

I'd say Hendo is a bit high there too, tbh. He's another guy that hurt his individual division standings by splitting his wins over different divisions.

Not that there's anything wrong with that but when you're ranking guys in a specific division it is what it is.

It’s true that Hendo’s career is more impressive when taken on the whole, sort of like Cormier’s. At MW, Dan still has wins over Newton, Gono, Bustamante, Misaki, Akiyama, Palhares, Bisping, and Lombard. PRIDE WW Champ, no defenses though. I dunno man, he’s probably a Top 5 MW all time.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

It’s true that Hendo’s career is more impressive when taken on the whole, sort of like Cormier’s. At MW, Dan still has wins over Newton, Gono, Bustamante, Misaki, Akiyama, Palhares, Bisping, and Lombard. PRIDE WW Champ, no defenses though. I dunno man, he’s probably a Top 5 MW all time.

Hendo's main problem I think is he also has losses that he shouldn't have. I can't imagine Bobby ever losing to Misaki or even Shields.

 

[BFoe]

Hendo's main problem I think is he also has losses that he shouldn't have. I can't imagine Bobby ever losing to Misaki or even Shields.

Hendo didn’t lose to Misaki though, did he? Shields is a tough one. It would seem like Hendo should’ve won that, and that Whitaker would win that fight, but Shields was a beast. Underrated by a lot of today’s fans.
What’s your list btw, since mine have gone under the microscope?

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Adesanya and Whittaker fought a handful of common opponents at MW, all legit and not far removed from their prime:

Romero
Gastelum
Brunson
Tavares

> Whittaker shows to be the slighly superior fighter based on those fights, imo. Besides,

Adesnaya - Costa (KO), Vettori (SD)
Whittaker - Jacare (KO), Till, Canonier, Hall, Natal (UD)

I guess if Israel defends his tittle vs Whittaker and makes it look easy again I'll be hard to deny Adesanya's superior greatness.
If Bobby gets his revenge, there will be no discussion leff about who is the best behind Silva.

Whittaker MW record is not far from Anderson Silva at this point. Their top10 wins list in terms of caliber of competition is pretty even imo, Silva a better finisher.

If Knuckles wins the rematch, he’s number two. Big if though. I don’t totally agree that Whittaker did better against the common opponents, but I would say it’s reasonably comparable (which means that outside their head to head meeting Knuckles is ahead). If Izzy wins the rematch, he’s number two (IMO).

 

[pankrat]

Hendo didn’t lose to Misaki though, did he? Shields is a tough one. It would seem like Hendo should’ve won that, and that Whitaker would win that fight, but Shields was a beast. Underrated by a lot of today’s fans.
What’s your list btw, since mine have gone under the microscope?

Yes, Henderson did lose to Misaki.