Social White Privilege Conference 2014

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People strawmanning the shit out of White Privilege ITT
 
The whiteness of privilege is incidental since the most economically privileged are white because of the dominance of western civilization. Naturally if you live in a western nation, with its western culture, western values, white leaders, and majority white population, yeah, the most succesful will be white, whites will fit in, whites will have the best jobs and higher education will be filled with whites. That's demographics, not privilege.

The problem with conflating whiteness and privilege is that western civilization abolished slavery, has been crusading against racism for decades, becoming more liberal, and western nations are democratic and have welcomed immigrants from everwhere, giving them equal opportunity. So now, for whites who do not have any special economic privilege, of which there are plenty, the label becomes a racial stereotype.

Anybody can be privileged, because privilege is a concept that has to do with social norms, and a person's value and acceptance in society, as well as their equality of opportunity. Racism is definitely still a problem among all different groups of people because it is a human, not a white, phenomenon. But privilege and racism do not overlap so perfectly as to justify assigning privilege solely to whiteness.

When you do so, it becomes this rallying against the authority of society and its institutions, which in the most dominant societies, western ones, the institutions as the rest of the population are majority white, and justifying the anti-whiteness that gets mixed up in it as being merely anti-authority, anti-privilege, hence the focus on minorities, the marginalized of every stripe holding up their victim cards.

That's why last time there was a thread on this I suggested that the concept of social privilege should be separated from the concept of whiteness. At first Workers United called me boneheaded for it but later upgraded to merely outrageous, so I thought we made progress.

If people are going to whine about "white privilege" then why aren't they complaining about Chinese Privilege in China or Korean Privilege in Korea? I go to South Korea annually and its the Korean people who have all the jobs and hold all the positions of power. The immigrants there generally have to struggle a lot more than anyone else. These people better start checking their privilege.

Also, the claims that only white people can be racist haven't witnessed how many Koreans, Japanese and Chinese absolutely HATE each other. Koreans living in Japan are treated like absolute shit. In China if you are not a Han Chinese then you are considered worthless.

The reality is that people have a tendency to pick sides and flock together. There have been experiments done in classrooms where students are separated into two groups by wearing red and blue T-Shirts. It doesn't take long before the students start grouping together with those of the same shirt color.

Another example is how people who are cheering for different teams treat each other at sporting events. People have even killed each other over being rival fans.
 
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If people are going to whine about "white privilege" then why aren't they complaining about Chinese Privilege in China or Korean Privilege in Korea? I go to South Korea annually and its the Korean people who have all the jobs and hold all the positions of power. The immigrants there generally have to struggle a lot more than anyone else. These people better start checking their privilege.

Also, the claims that only white people can be racist haven't witnessed how many Koreans, Japanese and Chinese absolutely HATE each other. Koreans living in Japan are treated like absolute shit. In China if you are not a Han Chinese then you are considered worthless.

The reality is that people have a tendency to pick sides and flock together. There have been experiments done in classrooms where students are separated into two groups by wearing red and blue T-Shirts. It doesn't take long before the students start grouping together with those of the same shirt color.

Look at how people who are cheering for different teams treat each other at sporting events.

Exactly. I think it occurs everywhere there is a strong majority of race / religion / insert difference. It's way blown out of proportion.
 
The problem with many of these movements is they are attacking on a purely ideological plane. They are acting against trivial notions of thought instead of actual discrimination. Were they backed up by actual statistics, they would have more of a case. I can attack feminism with statistics showing that men get hosed in the family law system, I can point out that men are nearly always treated ad the aggressor in DV cases, I can show that there is no pay gap. There is no he said, she said.

Likewise, I can also show that based on race, I am more likely to go to jail than a white person for drugs even though the white person is more likely to be carrying. I can show that I am less likely to get a job than an equally qualified white person. I can show that I am more likely to receive a harsher sentence for a crime than a white person committing the same offense.

White Privilege does not mean that you are automatically rich if you are white, and if you are saying that you are being absolutely disingenuous. It means that as a White person you are more likely to benefit from our system of economics, law, and labor than a person of color in the same situation. I can show statistics proving this, I can show studies proving this.

To act like the ideological aspects of White Privilege are all encompassing is pretty stupid. Astronomically stupid in fact.
 
If people are going to whine about "white privilege" then why aren't they complaining about Chinese Privilege in China or Korean Privilege in Korea? I go to South Korea annually and its the Korean people who have all the jobs and hold all the positions of power. The immigrants there generally have to struggle a lot more than anyone else. These people better start checking their privilege.

Also, the claims that only white people can be racist haven't witnessed how many Koreans, Japanese and Chinese absolutely HATE each other. Koreans living in Japan are treated like absolute shit. In China if you are not a Han Chinese then you are considered worthless.

The reality is that people have a tendency to pick sides and flock together. There have been experiments done in classrooms where students are separated into two groups by wearing red and blue T-Shirts. It doesn't take long before the students start grouping together with those of the same shirt color.

Look at how people who are cheering for different teams treat each other at sporting events.

Your China example does not discredit white privilege. Were this a chinese forum, you would have a point. White privilege doesnt exist in china. In america however...

Well, you see where im going with this.
 
Your China example does not discredit white privilege. Were this a chinese forum, you would have a point. White privilege doesnt exist in china. In america however...

Well, you see where im going with this.

I'll give you the police point. When I was growing up, when we had our run ins, the white kids always did the talking. The black cops were even worse about harassment if you had any black people in your group.
 
Your China example does not discredit white privilege. Were this a chinese forum, you would have a point. White privilege doesnt exist in china. In america however...

Well, you see where im going with this.

That is true, but I was responding to the point made about the influence of demographics and how they play a role in society. Different societies all over the world have a dominant group of people who are going to benefit more than other groups.

There was a group complaining about the racial representation at a U.S. modelling show complaining it was too "white." Someone broke down the numbers by and it almost perfectly matched the racial demographic in America.
 
That is true, but I was responding to the point made about the influence of demographics and how they play a role in society. Different societies all over the world have a dominant group of people who are going to benefit more than other groups.

There was a group complaining about the racial representation at a U.S. modelling show complaining it was too "white." Someone broke down the numbers by and it almost perfectly matched the racial demographic in America.


I agree, but I think you're leaving out the power dynamics. Apartheid south Africa is a great example of the minority having privilege. It's not necessarily numbers, it's power dynamics. I couldn't care less about ideological bullshit unless it is corrupting the system. The systemic disadvantages are where a demographic can get boned.
 
I can show that I am less likely to get a job than an equally qualified white person....


I can show statistics proving this, I can show studies proving this.

It seems to me that it depends on the job. I know there are a lot of companies dying to hire qualified minorities in certain industries where they are underrepresented. In other industries, the same does not hold true. Depending on how the studies are performed it's easy to get the desired results.

Consider college admissions. In that domain, it's white people (and Asians) who are less likely to get accepted than an equally qualified person of color.

Anyway, don't hold back with your studies and statistics.
 
The problem with many of these movements is they are attacking on a purely ideological plane. They are acting against trivial notions of thought instead of actual discrimination. Were they backed up by actual statistics, they would have more of a case. I can attack feminism with statistics showing that men get hosed in the family law system, I can point out that men are nearly always treated ad the aggressor in DV cases, I can show that there is no pay gap. There is no he said, she said.

Likewise, I can also show that based on race, I am more likely to go to jail than a white person for drugs even though the white person is more likely to be carrying. I can show that I am less likely to get a job than an equally qualified white person. I can show that I am more likely to receive a harsher sentence for a crime than a white person committing the same offense.

White Privilege does not mean that you are automatically rich if you are white, and if you are saying that you are being absolutely disingenuous. It means that as a White person you are more likely to benefit from our system of economics, law, and labor than a person of color in the same situation. I can show statistics proving this, I can show studies proving this.

To act like the ideological aspects of White Privilege are all encompassing is pretty stupid. Astronomically stupid in fact.

The problem is, the conference is trying to undermine/subvert everything.

Fine-tuning the system or attempting to help people break out of their own biases is good.

Claiming capitalism, science, logic, etc are devices of bigotry and in need of destruction only discredits the entire movement.

This is similar to the radical right making the collective conscious associate the Republican party with its most negative qualities.

The radical left has a greater ability to infuse their radical BS with sophistry but it is still BS and the BS masks any good points.
 
The funny thing is the anti-social justice stuff I have seen is downright sickening especially when it comes to feminism. I mean like downright disgusting. It makes me think it's something a lot more than what is perceived to be taught on college campuses.

I think you do make a good point in terms of this being blown out of proportion. I mostly read about this stuff on the internet and hear some stories from the mainstream news. But, when I get outside and walk around I generally see people of all backgrounds hanging out and living their lives in peace.

Bill Hicks made an insightful joke about it:

"Watch CNN headline news for an hour, its the most depressing fucking thing. This half hour: war, famine, death, AIDS, homeless, recession, depression... And you look out your window… (cricket sounds) ... Where’s all this shit happening man?!"



I think most of this stuff is being blown out of proportion through a combination of the mainstream media and the internet.
 
It seems to me that it depends on the job. I know there are a lot of companies dying to hire qualified minorities in certain industries because they are underrepresented. In other industries, the same does not hold true. Depending on how the studies are performed it's easy to get the desired results.

Consider college admissions. In that domain, it's white people (and Asians) who are less likely to get accepted than an equally qualified person of color.

Anyway, don't hold back with your studies and statistics.

College admissions are skewed by affirmative action (intended as corrective action to rectify the disparity). Probably not the most honest thing to use AA as discrediting White Privilege when the only reason it exists is because of White Privilege.

And im posting on mobile atm. Unfortunately, citing sources is kind of a bitch.
 
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I agree, but I think you're leaving out the power dynamics. Apartheid south Africa is a great example of the minority having privilege. It's not necessarily numbers, it's power dynamics. I couldn't care less about ideological bullshit unless it is corrupting the system. The systemic disadvantages are where a demographic can get boned.

You make another strong point. Another example is the relatively small percentage of Chinese people living in the Philippines and yet they own the vast majority of the country's wealth.
 
The problem is, the conference is trying to undermine/subvert everything.

Fine-tuning the system or attempting to help people break out of their own biases is good.

Claiming capitalism, science, logic, etc are devices of bigotry and in need of destruction only discredits the entire movement.

This is similar to the radical right making the collective conscious associate the Republican party with its most negative qualities.

The radical left has a greater ability to infuse their radical BS with sophistry but it is still BS and the BS masks any good points.

I agree with you. Its why I believe the civil rights movement has kind of fucked itself. The loudest and most idiotic people got to the forefront and derailed it in favor of Idiotic shit. Now we have systemic issues that persist because the "leaders" are too far in Donald Sterling's ass.

Honestly, its almost daunting to bring up salient points because you immediately are fighting uphill against the "SJW" stigma. I guess I can say that it at least keeps my source criticism skills sharp.
 
I agree with you. Its why I believe the civil rights movement has kind of fucked itself. The loudest and most idiotic people got to the forefront and derailed it in favor of Idiotic shit. Now we have systemic issues that persist because the "leaders" are too far in Donald Sterling's ass.

Honestly, its almost daunting to bring up salient points because you immediately are fighting uphill against the "SJW" stigma. I guess I can say that it at least keeps my source criticism skills sharp.

Its difficult to gain sympathy for a movement that is constantly spewing bizarre "theories" and absurd revisionist interpretations of history. When asked for a concrete example of discrimination or oppression and people are responding with divisive abstract answers like "Its systematic and you are a white male so you can't understand discrimination" it makes it difficult to get on board with these movements.

When these "white privilege" groups are claiming Descartes "I think, therefore I am" was the beginning of white racism and that logic and reason are the white man's tools of oppression, its rather difficult to take them seriously.

I've noticed its a lot easier to understand the Muslim Women's movement when they make it clear they are fighting for employment opportunities, the chance to drive a car and walk down the street without a male escort.

These movements would gain more sympathy if they dropped the "theoretical nonsense," the revisionist history that borders on conspiracy theory and the ridiculous jargon/buzzwords and started giving clear and concise explanations of their goals along with concrete examples of discrimination and oppression.

The key for these movements gaining sympathy is being reasonable and striving for clarity.
 
I vaguely recall this sort of thing existing when I was in school. No one took it very seriously, I like to think they still don't. Identity studies is a useless and non-rigorous academic discipline, I don't know any legit academics (and I know a few) who care a bit what those people say. They can go to conferences and flagellate themselves for being white, but I don't think it's having much effect on the rest of America. These people are essentially the left wing analogue to paranoid Alex Jones survivalists on the right: good for a sound bit for the other side, but not taken seriously even by their own party. It would be nice if they didn't get public funding, but it would also be nice if the Westboro Baptist Church weren't tax exempt. If you have broad programs like public funding for education you're probably going to have some people take advantage of that system, but it's not sufficient reason to me to throw the system out. Luckily this country still values engineers, scientists, and business people more than it does identity studies majors.
 
i agree with you. Its why i believe the civil rights movement has kind of fucked itself. The loudest and most idiotic people got to the forefront and derailed it in favor of idiotic shit. Now we have systemic issues that persist because the "leaders" are too far in donald sterling's ass.

Honestly, its almost daunting to bring up salient points because you immediately are fighting uphill against the "sjw" stigma. I guess i can say that it at least keeps my source criticism skills sharp.

sjw?
 
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