Which old school boxers are overrated?

[mozfonky]

pac, mayweather, even older hopkins have been good fighters but there are just not enough of them and the ones there are just don't get tested as often and in the variety of ways fighters of the past were. look at pac, i posed the question of whether he'd ever fought someone with great lateral movement, pre-mayweather, turns out he hadn't and it showed. you imagine saying that about some of the past greats?

 

[Seano]

Ray Robinson was fighting all of the time so there's gonna be some cans in there. He had 199 fights.

I'll take boxing in the 40's with the top fighters fighting 10-15 a year over the current fighters fighting 0-3 times a year now.

So would we congratulate say, Floyd Mayweather today if he fought some club fighter at the local fair for a payday? Like I said, the fights wouldn't even get sanctioned today. Floyd got laughed at for fighting former world champions when he was almost 40. Just imagine if news broke that Floyd was fighting a guy with a record like this-https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/11800

 

[Guru88]

So would we congratulate say, Floyd Mayweather today if he fought some club fighter at the local fair for a payday? Like I said, the fights wouldn't even get sanctioned today. Floyd got laughed at for fighting former world champions when he was almost 40. Just imagine if news broke that Floyd was fighting a guy with a record like this-https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/11800

Floyd is about to box a YouTuber, his last opponent had never had a pro boxing fight, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t an all time great and didn’t have great wins, judge him on the Coralles, Pac, Canelo, Cotto, Mosely fights the list goes on, same with Robinson, if you have hundreds of fights they can’t all be world class, it was a different era

 

[SandisLL]

Floyd is about to box a YouTuber, his last opponent had never had a pro boxing fight, t

for this Sr even likes me more.
Otherwise, Jr is A+++ level and so on of course.

 

[Seano]

Floyd is about to box a YouTuber, his last opponent had never had a pro boxing fight, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t an all time great and didn’t have great wins, judge him on the Coralles, Pac, Canelo, Cotto, Mosely fights the list goes on, same with Robinson, if you have hundreds of fights they can’t all be world class, it was a different era

Thats not a pro fight though. No different than Joe Louis doing some wrestling. I'm talking about sanctioned fights. People laud these legions of tomato cans on the old timers records but the same people would laugh at modern fighters fighting jobbers like that.

 

[Guru88]

Thats not a pro fight though. No different than Joe Louis doing some wrestling. I'm talking about sanctioned fights. People laud these legions of tomato cans on the old timers records but the same people would laugh at modern fighters fighting jobbers like that.

Mayweather McGregor was a sanctioned fight, it got him to 50-0, and was much more of a joke of a fight than anybody on Robinsons record

 

[TheMessiah]

Rocky marciano

 

[Guru88]

Rocky marciano

Yeah his best wins were against fighters past their best, he had power and a good chin and a massive will, but he was limited, Louis would’ve smoked him at his best

 

[Seano]

Mayweather McGregor was a sanctioned fight, it got him to 50-0, and was much more of a joke of a fight than anybody on Robinsons record

I thought you were talking about the youtube guy.

But that sort of proves my point, IMO. Did people think much of him beating Conor? People thought it was sort of a joke, didn't they?

 

[boxingskills]

So would we congratulate say, Floyd Mayweather today if he fought some club fighter at the local fair for a payday? Like I said, the fights wouldn't even get sanctioned today. Floyd got laughed at for fighting former world champions when he was almost 40. Just imagine if news broke that Floyd was fighting a guy with a record like this-https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/11800

You're right that Floyd would get criticism if he did fight a low calibre opponent. Floyd got criticism for his competition, which was very good btw.

Ray Robinson had 199 fights. Floyd had 50. If Floyd had 199 fights then a lot of those fights would be against cans just like SRR had a lot of fights against cans.

 

[boxingskills]

I thought you were talking about the youtube guy.

But that sort of proves my point, IMO. Did people think much of him beating Conor? People thought it was sort of a joke, didn't they?

Going into fight a lot of people bet on Conor which got Floyd to around -400 odds, so a lot of people thought he would win. It was free money betting on Floyd.

The reality was the fight was a joke. 49-0 Vs 0-0. I won't lie though I was hyped for it lol. The promotion was great for the fight and there was intrigue for how well Conor would do.

 

[TheGreatA]

Most of them, honestly. People tend to remember a great fighters career as a highlight, only focusing on the best moments. People will talk about all the guys that say, Ray Robinson fought but half of them wouldn't even make the cut as sparring partners in boxing today, let alone be sanctioned to fight in a pro bout against the P4P kings.

If Conor McGregor was sanctioned, then so would most of Robinson's opponents.

A lot of Robinson's opponents are probably underrated because people don't know anything about the era. They might know about Jake LaMotta, but nothing about fighters like California Jackie Wilson, George Costner, Tommy Bell, Jose Basora, Marty Servo, etc.

We've come to expect that modern fighters are "bigger" due to how the weigh-ins are handled, but looking back on Robinson's era, a lot of the people he fought as a welterweight were around 6 feet or over, and physically just looked big. It's another over-looked aspect of Robinson's record, the fact that he wasn't just a "size bully" picking on people with his 5'11 height and 72½ inch reach, in fact he was out-sized by a lot of the major opponents he fought.

 

[Guru88]

If Conor McGregor was sanctioned, then so would most of Robinson's opponents.

A lot of Robinson's opponents are probably underrated because people don't know anything about the era. They might know about Jake LaMotta, but nothing about fighters like California Jackie Wilson, George Costner, Tommy Bell, Jose Basora, Marty Servo, etc.

We've come to expect that modern fighters are "bigger" due to how the weigh-ins are handled, but looking back on Robinson's era, a lot of the people he fought as a welterweight were 6 feet or over, and physically just looked big. It's another over-looked aspect of Robinson's record, the fact that he wasn't just a "size bully" picking on people with his 5'11 height and 72½ inch reach, in fact he was out-sized by a lot of the major opponents he fought.

Also there was only one champion per weight division unlike now and less weight classes being a two or three weight world champion is nowhere near as hard nowadays, they also didn’t have the PED’s that modern day fighters have which helps you move up the weights... Pac Canelo for example, Robinson was definitely the best ever in terms of achievements, The only one I’d pick to beat him h2h is prime Roy Jones

 

[TheGreatA]

Also there was only one champion per weight division unlike now and less weight classes being a two or three weight world champion is nowhere near as hard nowadays, they also didn’t have the PED’s that modern day fighters have which helps you move up the weights... Pac Canelo for example, Robinson was the man at welter, middle and light heavy, the best ever

Henry Armstrong literally drank beer to put on 10 pounds in order to fight as a welterweight.

What these guys were able to do was pretty incredible. And you had a lot of people who were just athletic freaks for the era, because quite frankly, they had no alternatives. What other sport was an African-American, or an Italian-American, or a Jewish-American going to make money in, in those times, except for boxing?

Nowadays people have a lot more options than just boxing. We're not seeing today's "A-level athletes" compared to yesteryear's "A-level athletes". We're seeing, at best, today's "C or D-level athletes" compared to the absolute best from years gone by, when boxing was, in many ways, the sport to make money in. Not basketball, not football, or baseball, or whatever.

That's why I don't necessarily think that the sport has evolved so far as some people might think.

 

[RabbitPunch36]

pac, mayweather, even older hopkins have been good fighters but there are just not enough of them and the ones there are just don't get tested as often and in the variety of ways fighters of the past were. look at pac, i posed the question of whether he'd ever fought someone with great lateral movement, pre-mayweather, turns out he hadn't and it showed. you imagine saying that about some of the past greats?

Thoughts on Marquez? To me he was battle tested by any and every style. I rank him just a hair lower than Mayweather and Pac Man.

 

[mozfonky]

Thoughts on Marquez? To me he was battle tested by any and every style. I rank him just a hair lower than Mayweather and Pac Man.

He was good, didn't do much with mayweather, probably roided out against pac the last time. But compared to when there were lots of guys willing to fight in different styles and fight hard, it's really difficult to follow that up for me. I don't even see these guys working hard for the most part, what they get away with selling to the public as an event is a shame.

 

[Seano]

If Conor McGregor was sanctioned, then so would most of Robinson's opponents.

A lot of Robinson's opponents are probably underrated because people don't know anything about the era. They might know about Jake LaMotta, but nothing about fighters like California Jackie Wilson, George Costner, Tommy Bell, Jose Basora, Marty Servo, etc.

We've come to expect that modern fighters are "bigger" due to how the weigh-ins are handled, but looking back on Robinson's era, a lot of the people he fought as a welterweight were around 6 feet or over, and physically just looked big. It's another over-looked aspect of Robinson's record, the fact that he wasn't just a "size bully" picking on people with his 5'11 height and 72½ inch reach, in fact he was out-sized by a lot of the major opponents he fought.

So like I said before- Do people rave about the risk Floyd took fighting Conor or is the fight generally considered a joke?

 

[TheGreatA]

So like I said before- Do people rave about the risk Floyd took fighting Conor or is the fight generally considered a joke?

Well, it was good enough to put him at 50-0.

 

[Seano]

Well, it was good enough to put him at 50-0.

Come on. People were literally offended by him being 50-0 over that fight.

 

[Noveltymortar]

Prima Carnara
Rocky Marcino
James Braddock

Not a good example. I have literally never heard anyone describe Carnera as anything other than a big slow heavyweight whose only attribute was his size. Nobody rates him highly. Braddock is famous not for being a great heavyweight, but for being a guy with 25 losses who scored a huge upset on the night. Decent boxer but never heard any serious talk about him being anything special. Marciano maybe, since you can still find some old Italians who think he was indestructible. He was a legitimate champion though.