Which art is the best base for mma ?

[knoxpk]

Hey, knoxpk, I'm not exactly sure what you meant by your post, but I assume you're disagreeing with me.

You don't see a correlation between US MMA and numeroust folkstyle wrestlers, MMA in Brazil and numerous BJJ guys, and MMA fighters in Japan with judo/shooto backgrounds?

No LOL... I was implying that yes there are alot of US wrestlers in the UFC however there are plenty of Brazilians and even in other events like strikeforce. Also plenty of the americans are what we would call "bjj guys".

I also am adding that the caliber of BJJ guy is much higher in his chosen "base" per se, than the usual Judoka or wrestler that you see entering these events, so I called it a wash. You have the Popovitch's, Garcias, Jacare's and Gracies of the world fighting while still in their primes.

 

[Galahad]

No LOL... I was implying that yes there are alot of US wrestlers in the UFC however there are plenty of Brazilians and even in other events like strikeforce. Also plenty of the americans are what we would call "bjj guys".

I also am adding that the caliber of BJJ guy is much higher in his chosen "base" per se, than the usual Judoka or wrestler that you see entering these events, so I called it a wash. You have the Popovitch's, Garcias, Jacare's and Gracies of the world fighting while still in their primes.

Oh right, I see what you mean now.

 

[CyberFreq]

Pointless to point out that so and so many champs and fighters come from a wrestling background

THEY HAVE DONE IT SINCE THEY WERE KIDS, it takes longer to be really good at it

for a old teenager or 20+ BJJ is way better then wrestling

GSP didn't start wrestling until he began MMA...

 

[Bobbybackpack]

Not taking anything away from wrestling (I wrestled actually) -

But to the people talking about all the champs, contenders, and just fighters coming from wrestling backgrounds, you have to remember it's the United States, and our martial art is pretty much wrestling. I think that has much more to do with it, and the fact there's little money in wrestling, than folkstyle magically dominating all other styles.

Nope. Wrestling is just that good. The best MMA fighters also tend to be in USA because of wrestling.

 

[Hotora86]

in your opinion which art (judo/bjj/greco/freestyle/sambo...) is the best base for mma beginers

I am currently trying to decide which art to choose after alot of muay thai and boxing

can you help ?

This kinda thread pops up every week.

My friend, there will be people here trying to be objective and presenting proof that this art or that art is best. But since the question is personal/subjective, the answer must be as well.

Thus, the best art for You is the one You will enjoy and stick to. Go visit all the local gyms and pick the one that feels right. That's it.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Nope. Wrestling is just that good. The best MMA fighters also tend to be in USA because of wrestling.

I don't think you can ignore the fact that there's basically no money in wrestling whereas if you're a very talented amateur boxer, there's likely more money for you in boxing than in MMA. The two styles which dominate the meta game these days are boxing (because of the defense and footwork), and wrestling (because of the ability to dictate where the fight takes place, as well as control people on the ground while doing damage). America produces a lot of athletes in both those styles, but only one of the two regularly sends some of their best representatives into MMA. Look what even a 2rd rate amateur boxer like Cody Garbrandt has been able to do to people with his power, defense, and movement. Now imagine if someone like Andre Ward had come into MMA straight off winning the Olympics rather than pursuing a pro boxing career. With that level of skill and athleticism, he'd have dominated. Yeah, he'd have had to learn how to wrestle defensively, but wrestlers have to learn how to strike and it doesn't seem to present too big a hurdle for them. And we have examples of athletic strikers getting pretty damn good at wrestling pretty fast like Aldo, GSP, and Whittaker.

Wrestling is absolutely necessary to succeed in MMA, and being good at it gives you a huge leg up, but there's also significant selection bias when you look at where the best pure athletes are coming into MMA from.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Good old fashioned Mr. Doran's gym class wrastlin.

 

[SummerStriker]

If I could do it all over, I would have wrestled as a kid and done TKD in the off seasons, then boxing / BJJ / Muay Thai as an adult.

 

[lechien]

Holy necro. Relying to a 7 years thread

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I don't think you can ignore the fact that there's basically no money in wrestling whereas if you're a very talented amateur boxer, there's likely more money for you in boxing than in MMA. The two styles which dominate the meta game these days are boxing (because of the defense and footwork), and wrestling (because of the ability to dictate where the fight takes place, as well as control people on the ground while doing damage). America produces a lot of athletes in both those styles, but only one of the two regularly sends some of their best representatives into MMA. Look what even a 2rd rate amateur boxer like Cody Garbrandt has been able to do to people with his power, defense, and movement. Now imagine if someone like Andre Ward had come into MMA straight off winning the Olympics rather than pursuing a pro boxing career. With that level of skill and athleticism, he'd have dominated. Yeah, he'd have had to learn how to wrestle defensively, but wrestlers have to learn how to strike and it doesn't seem to present too big a hurdle for them. And we have examples of athletic strikers getting pretty damn good at wrestling pretty fast like Aldo, GSP, and Whittaker.

Wrestling is absolutely necessary to succeed in MMA, and being good at it gives you a huge leg up, but there's also significant selection bias when you look at where the best pure athletes are coming into MMA from.

it doesnt matter, cody is not just a boxer, he was a wrestler too.

the same could be said about MT. Thing is, no matter how good your striking is, if you cant keep the fight standing up, its useless.

Leanring how to wrestle is not for anyone, sure some guys can pick it up really fast and turn into great wrestlers, not everyone though.

Also, just becasue your boxing is elite doesnt mean it will translate to mma striking, mma strikign just as mma grappling is a whole different thing, striking more so than grappling. We have seen countless examples of pure brawlers beating the living shit out of much better tecnical strikers. The sport of boxing and kick boxing mostly relies too much on the use of pillows as defese. When 4z gloves are put on, well that goes the drain.

just becasue you are one hell of speciallist doesnt mean your specialty will translte exactly to mma. Wrestling however, gives you a very wide skills set that translate very well to mma.

All in All, mma is a 1 v 1 sports, and in a 1 v 1 fight, grappling > striking.

 

[Uchi Mata]

it doesnt matter, cody is not just a boxer, he was a wrestler too.

the same could be said about MT. Thing is, no matter how good your striking is, if you cant keep the fight standing up, its useless.

Leanring how to wrestle is not for anyone, sure some guys can pick it up really fast and turn into great wrestlers, not everyone though.

Also, just becasue your boxing is elite doesnt mean it will translate to mma striking, mma strikign just as mma grappling is a whole different thing, striking more so than grappling. We have seen countless examples of pure brawlers beating the living shit out of much better tecnical strikers. The sport of boxing and kick boxing mostly relies too much on the use of pillows as defese. When 4z gloves are put on, well that goes the drain.

just becasue you are one hell of speciallist doesnt mean your specialty will translte exactly to mma. Wrestling however, gives you a very wide skills set that translate very well to mma.

All in All, mma is a 1 v 1 sports, and in a 1 v 1 fight, grappling > striking.

How many of the current UFC champions would you say are primarily grapplers, vs use wrestling to keep the fight standing so they can strike? Maybe DC could be categorized like that?

Grappling is not inherently greater than striking. Wrestling is necessary to keep the fight standing or get back to your feet if you get taken down, but the vast majority of fights are primarily striking contests, even more so with high level fights. TD defense is a very limited subset of wrestling, but it's the only one a good striker needs to master to be competitive in MMA, and you're seeing more and more of that game plan being adopted by the people at the top of all the divisions. I think you're mentally stuck in about 2003, when being a good wrestler made for effortless dominance. That's not the case at all anymore.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

How many of the current UFC champions would you say are primarily grapplers, vs use wrestling to keep the fight standing so they can strike? Maybe DC could be categorized like that?

Grappling is not inherently greater than striking. Wrestling is necessary to keep the fight standing or get back to your feet if you get taken down, but the vast majority of fights are primarily striking contests, even more so with high level fights. TD defense is a very limited subset of wrestling, but it's the only one a good striker needs to master to be competitive in MMA, and you're seeing more and more of that game plan being adopted by the people at the top of all the divisions. I think you're mentally stuck in about 2003, when being a good wrestler made for effortless dominance. That's not the case at all anymore.

mighty mouse, DC, GSP

Most current fights are spent on the feet because its extremely hard to take someone down these days, let alone hold him down.I have to disagree with you, grapplins is much more effective in a 1 v 1 fght. Clinching is a natural reaction, it exists in every single combat sport, it exists in boxing, clinching happens even when 2 skilled strikers are going at it, they will clinch, and gravity is on the grappliers side. What has happened is that the grappling gap in mma has been reducing, mma wrestlers/ grapplers are just as good as pure wreslters/bjj guys trying to grapple once they get in a cage. So all grappling is been equalized, saved a couple of exceptions.

The mere fact that theres someone like demian maia wrecking people up with straight up pure grappling gives you the account. And is not only him, lesser leagues are dominated by grapplers, even in a bigger scale, regional shows are full with so called strikers, grapplers get in there and its a grapplefest. Hell, even those so called strikers end up wrestling somehow, its just the nature of the human being. Now of course skilled strikers are different, but none the less, if they have no tdd, well all have seen it over and over again what happens

Wrestling is necessary to keep the fight standing, and to keep the fight on the ground, in a sport where striking on your feet is not the only viable option, taking someone down and punching him in the face is still and will always be a very very good strategy to win a fight.

 

[JagRoss]

mighty mouse, DC, GSP

Most current fights are spent on the feet because its extremely hard to take someone down these days, let alone hold him down.I have to disagree with you, grapplins is much more effective in a 1 v 1 fght. Clinching is a natural reaction, it exists in every single combat sport, it exists in boxing, clinching happens even when 2 skilled strikers are going at it, they will clinch, and gravity is on the grappliers side. What has happened is that the grappling gap in mma has been reducing, mma wrestlers/ grapplers are just as good as pure wreslters/bjj guys trying to grapple once they get in a cage. So all grappling is been equalized, saved a couple of exceptions.

The mere fact that theres someone like demian maia wrecking people up with straight up pure grappling gives you the account. And is not only him, lesser leagues are dominated by grapplers, even in a bigger scale, regional shows are full with so called strikers, grapplers get in there and its a grapplefest. Hell, even those so called strikers end up wrestling somehow, its just the nature of the human being. Now of course skilled strikers are different, but none the less, if they have no tdd, well all have seen it over and over again what happens

Wrestling is necessary to keep the fight standing, and to keep the fight on the ground, in a sport where striking on your feet is not the only viable option, taking someone down and punching him in the face is still and will always be a very very good strategy to win a fight.

The ruleset also encourages striking.
5 minute rounds, with the fighters restarted standing every round?
You see a lot of fights were the one fighter spends a lot of energy trying to take the other guy down, and when he finally gets him down there are 1-2 minutes left on the clock.
The guy on the bottom holds on for a bit, the round ends and they restart standing.

I'm not saying the rules should be changed—but it is worth keeping in mind.

Similarly if we had a ring instead of an octagon, strikers would have a much bigger advantage.
You wouldn't be able to push people onto the walls to take them down and you have to worry about being stuck in the corner.