Where We Stand: Heavyweight Division | GLORY

Discussion in 'Muay Thai and Kickboxing' started by Broadcast, Oct 31, 2020.

  1. Broadcast Farang

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    Rico Verhoeven
    Jamal Ben Saddik
    Benjamin Adegbuyi
    Badr Hari
    Raul Cătinaș
    Jahfarr Wilnis
    Tarik Khbabez
    Antonio Plazibat
    Dangelo Marshall
    Nordine Mahieddine

    In ONE are Roman Kryklia, Andrei Stoica, Ismael Londt, Murat Aygün, Ibrahim El Bouni and Anderson Silva.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  2. Shadess ...

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    Think Catinas beats anyone from that group?
     
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  3. Broadcast Farang

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    My group was in no order, really, but Cătinaș was much bigger in Superkombat than Marshall. Dangelo was nothing than an average heavyweight, young though with some potential. 7 out of these 10 fought in Superkombat previously, so I totally know their value. Non-SK were only Ben Saddik, Badr and Wilnis.

    Mahieddine has progressed a lot (from a jobber) but he is far from an Edwards. Edwards in his prime knocked the best version of Overeem down. Also since then Cătinaș is improved. All have improved, from Marshall and Raul, to Mahieddine and Plazibat. Khbabez and Ben Saddik the same. Only Wilnis has stagnated. With Adegbuyi is questionable.

    For me, Mike Tyson is not a top 5 all-time heavyweight. Reach counts huge in the HW division. And Cătinaș is smaller. But hits like a train. I recently saw him training against Londt and Khbabez, and looked superior.

    Now Khbabez is exceptionally talented as punching volume, but he is even less than Cătinaș a heavyweight (the Moroccan is a LHW). Raul all of his life has fought as a HW, Tarik not really. Khbabez and Wilnis on this point look to hold insane ammounts of punches.

    We all know Jahfarr has a 2nd face, he is like Jekyll and Hyde, and already lost twice to Brestovac. Now I rate Cătinaș very dangerous for both Brestovac and Wilnis. I am watching the heavyweights since 25 years, here the boxing argument counts less. Once you are caught and you are losing by KO, you also develop a "fear". Wins bring wins, and if you are on a losing streak it"s not good.

    For example, if Khbabez is matched to the "elite" (Rico, Jamal, Benny and Badr), and if he loses by KO he will reconsider the position of a "king". Because on social website he thinks he will be the king of Glory. But Kryklia exposed him. And Krylia didn"t really measure his forces in real promotions such as Glory and Superkombat. Actually, in SK he lost to Khbabez. He also fought not so well against Ivan Pavle. Kryklia fought in promotions where there were no heavyweights, and embarrassed against the bad face of Wilnis.

    Now I don"t think Cătinaș can beat the elite, he is more of a puncher plus lacks their reach. But this type of heavy punchers are dangerous for most of the fighters. If Raul is back to the level shown in his last fights, prime Cătinaș was against Guidon, Slowinski and Bugotzki, he can definitely beat about two of them by transforming them into sacks of potatoes.

    Additionally, some are judging Plazibat through the eyes of 1-2 notable wins in his career. And none was an exceptional opponent. Wilnis in another day and different than his fights against Adegbuyi, and El Bouni who can be really lazy in pointing more (he is looking for KOs but cannot really KO bigger guys, El Bouni is a clear LHW, before even a Cruiserweight in SK). I see improvements, but let"s draw some conclusions after the further bouts. Plazibat must also abandon his one-dimensional style of fighting.

    I don"t know how you can"t like White Tyson, 90% of the public totally loves him. It"s hard to predict the rankings, but Cătinaș was popular in Superkombat and almost a star. His place would have been in SK, Glory or old K-1. I personally don"t see him losing 3/3 fights, only if he fights top 3. Cătinaș was in the same ring with Samedov and Balrak when he was not half of what he was in his last fights before this hiatus, being very, very young and with a different style. But he was still the aggressor.

    PS. Normally Khbabez should still do better. But I saw him sparring against Raul and I am not really sold. On the paper he should do better than Wilnis, but if he faces the best version of Jahfarr, I am not sure he takes it. Khbabez is also a bit one-dimensional (not like Plazibat though). And it was easier when he fought new heavyweights such as Andrei Stoica (started his pro-career in 85 or even lighter), counting on pure force. In my opinion on some point the reach will count, it will not be just, only about the talent. Because Tarik is talented.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  4. Broadcast Farang

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    His father died in his childhood, and Raul comes from a small town and has always dealt with sponsorship issues. He is a phenomenon, with or without becoming at least a challenger in Glory. Really a quiet character, honest nature.

    He KOed Rozenstruik when he was not even in his prime, but in half prime, now he sits in the same ring with the best fighters on the planet. With the likes of Rico, Jamal, Badr, Adegbuyi, Tarik, and not with Miocic and the old bums. For an 180 cm, he is a phenomenon. And Cătinaș did not refuse, reject the Glory contract like Kryklia.

    The logic, overrating Kryklia, but understimating Raul. Kryklia can wait until Benny and Badr will be 37-38 years old, then to join the elite. Maybe Rico will become an actor or will switch to MMA.

    Like I said, for more than 15 years we had the best heavyweights in Romania, I think Roman is highly untested. Not untalented, because I personally recommended him to Superkombat together with Sittichai. But failed to impress me in SK.

    Some people are giving Khbabez and Kryklia more credit, just because they fought in One. But now we will see at least where Khbabez stands. And anyway, both fought before in Superkombat. One is only taking the merits of other promotions that really launched them. Khbabez was SK champion when he signed for One, Superkombat was superior in the HW to ONE (SK had great divisions, and developed because they held seasonal WGP for them: 81, 85, 91, 95, +95). And for Kryklia, Kunlun had a better contribution.

    The HW division is not the LW. Rogava that you mentioned was nothing than a below average fighter in Superkombat, maybe mediocre with no real talent for the top scene. He has improved of course, but he is stealing your eyes with the boxing. THE HEAVYWEIGHT is more about the "toughness" and "punching power" (puncher"s chance) than the smaller weight classes. I am anyway not Mafalda, but remember I told you my opinion about Gerasimchuk. Now Kryklia went extra-decision with Rogava. Rogava lost to the worst version of Leko in Superkombat, to the old Leko, and even managed to lose to a local Bulgarian Kostov. His record is probably not complete, but his best wins are: 1. Diniz 2. Vanneste 3. Krouba (last 2 are only decent). In rest, nobody.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  5. Broadcast Farang

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    It is very hard to rank some certain fighters, without facing each other. Plus if you are not a demolisher like Hari, to make way you need a lot of certain factors to be behind you: from team and management, to a friendly promotion. And this is how you also develop.

    In Romania, Cătinaș was with Ghiță and Adegbuyi. Massive talent like Bogdan Stoica. Unfortunately Bogdan hasn"t developed like all expected, also because of an accident outside of the kickboxing ring. Andrei Stoica will never be a classic heavyweight, he is between 85 and 95 and I think he could be Glory champion in 85 (if he switches back to his aggressive kung-fu style), but in front of both Andrei and Moroșanu I would choose over prime Cătinaș.

    Moroșanu was hugely robbed in Australia against Ben Edwards, he won 2-3/3 rounds, while the public agreed Cătălin was also robbed in K-1 quarterfinals at the final against Zhuravlev. So Moroșanu wins such opponents, but Cătinaș if you ask any Romanian with knowledge he will tell you he would pick Raul against the Carpathian Death.

    Romania had 3 heavyweights in the K-1 WGP: Ghiță, Cătinaș and Moroșanu. At the finals only Daniel and Raul. Benny Adegbuyi only fought 1 time in K-1, when K-1 co-promoted only with Superkombat.

    Like I said, for years I have praised highly solid kickboxers, Romanian AND foreign(ers). You will not see me backing any bum and if you"ve seen I pushed Londt, Zhuravlev, Plazibat, Khbabez, Kryklia, Sittichai, El Bouni, Cedric Manhoef, Loren, etc, now I am pushing others. If you remember, I didn"t push Marshall for example, Bates and so on, I considered them talented but not with a huge potential and they still did great at Glory.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2020
  6. Kanka Black Belt

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    Glory should probably focus on the heavier weight classes now. They can not compete with other organizations in the lighter weight classes.
     
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  7. Memeojima Green Belt

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    Ben Edwards never knocked Overeem down he got KOd in round 1 and made Reem look like Tyson
     
  8. Broadcast Farang

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    My fault, I rewatched the fight but he had a great start. I remember most of the fights but not entirely correct. He did one of the best against Overeem in that edition Alistair was clearly juicing. He also kept on fighting back after every down. Tyson wouldn"t have been caught like Overeem here. Plus Tyson when he punched, it was clear KO.
     
  9. Memeojima Green Belt

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    You indeed have a terrible memory. Reem ran through Edwards. One of his easiest K1 fights

     
  10. Snubnoze707 High Level

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    Bangin' Ben "Hamburger" Edwards
     

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