Where to go to train BJJ at Olympic level intensity

[Rod1]

So now Japan is irelevant?!
Sorry, I cant follow your logic.
Any kind of tests could be done, if you cover the expenses, of course.
I could list eye- hand coordinatio and reaction time as one of the aspects Japanese are training, or ypu think S&C is only weightlifting?
Anyway, have fun, I have a national team to prepare.

Not irrelevant, but they have been pretty erratic for decades now, sometimes they win a lot of medals, sometimes they win none, countries like France always win a few medals.

So you dont know the physical parameters of the A and B teams yet you know there is a difference in the physical attributes? and what expenses? Only the wingate requires any sort of specialized equipment, you can do pretty much all other tests, but the numbers already should be known if the judokas are being trained by a Cuban.

You also talk of the japanese as if their male team was a powerhouse in wrestling, it is not they didnt got a single male medal at the last worlds.

 

[Dirty Holt]

You guys are singling out Japan as if they are not strong. My guess is you look at them and think "this wrestler doesnt look like other strong wrestlers, therefore they must not be strong." Nothing is further from the truth. Japan had guys to the Olympic Training Center when I was there at least 15 times in 5 years, so I know a little bit about how they train.

They are fucking powerful. Way more than you would think. They focus primarily one aspect of power more than any other, and that is speed. They are exactly the opposite of Americans greco wrestlers, where we use a lot of force to generate power. They use much less work and way less time (more speed) and the results are guys who are tough as fuck to beat.

They train like pussies. They crack during practice. They dont feel strong. Then you pull one in a match and wonder why the hell it is so hard. Their Olympic team members have an ability to shut off their mind and do boring, easy, mindless practices for hours on end. They build up so much speed and cut their work (Force X Displacement) that they are very powerful in match situations.

You also talk of the japanese as if their male team was a powerhouse in wrestling, it is not they didnt got a single male medal at the last worlds.

Thats a bullshit way to look at their results. They have also had multiple world and Olympic medalists in mens wrestling, including an Olympic champ and an Olympic silver. They are most definitely a world powerhouse.

 

[emax]

You guys are singling out Japan as if they are not strong. My guess is you look at them and think "this wrestler doesnt look like other strong wrestlers, therefore they must not be strong." Nothing is further from the truth. Japan had guys to the Olympic Training Center when I was there at least 15 times in 5 years, so I know a little bit about how they train.

They are fucking powerful. Way more than you would think. They focus primarily one aspect of power more than any other, and that is speed. They are exactly the opposite of Americans greco wrestlers, where we use a lot of force to generate power. They use much less work and way less time (more speed) and the results are guys who are tough as fuck to beat.

They train like pussies. They crack during practice. They dont feel strong. Then you pull one in a match and wonder why the hell it is so hard. Their Olympic team members have an ability to shut off their mind and do boring, easy, mindless practices for hours on end. They build up so much speed and cut their work (Force X Displacement) that they are very powerful in match situations.

This actually very interesting; I did not know about this. I admit to not knowing much about Japanese grappling outside of their Judo training and the fact that some of them are learning BJJ as well. Are these Japanese athletes who started out their athletic careers in freestyle or Greco Roman as opposed to judoka competitors who were trying to cross train or make the switch over to wrestling?

Also, of wrestlers from the various nationalities who have trained with, which nations have stood out to you as far as having wrestlers who are the opposite of the Japanese, who apparently "train like pussies", in terms of mental toughness and with the most flat out, hardcore and intense training and who are far and away the least likely to crack under pressure? Does that distinction go to Americans, Russians, former Soviet Bloc/satellite nations,Koreans, Chinese and in particular wrestlers from Mongolia or Xinjiang, Cubans, Iranians or a different nationality?

 

[Rod1]

You guys are singling out Japan as if they are not strong. My guess is you look at them and think "this wrestler doesnt look like other strong wrestlers, therefore they must not be strong." Nothing is further from the truth. Japan had guys to the Olympic Training Center when I was there at least 15 times in 5 years, so I know a little bit about how they train.

They are fucking powerful. Way more than you would think. They focus primarily one aspect of power more than any other, and that is speed. They are exactly the opposite of Americans greco wrestlers, where we use a lot of force to generate power. They use much less work and way less time (more speed) and the results are guys who are tough as fuck to beat.

They train like pussies. They crack during practice. They dont feel strong. Then you pull one in a match and wonder why the hell it is so hard. Their Olympic team members have an ability to shut off their mind and do boring, easy, mindless practices for hours on end. They build up so much speed and cut their work (Force X Displacement) that they are very powerful in match situations.


Thats a bullshit way to look at their results. They have also had multiple world and Olympic medalists in mens wrestling, including an Olympic champ and an Olympic silver. They are most definitely a world powerhouse.

They are less of a powerhouse in men wrestling than Brazil is in men Judo, which is the point im arguing against Onq, that Brazilians elite judoka are as olympic athlete in Judo as it gets.

He brought the Japanese because his argument that Brazilian judokas are not elite judoka because they dont medal in wrestling.

 

[Dirty Holt]

This actually very interesting; I did not know about this. I admit to not knowing much about Japanese grappling outside of their Judo training and the fact that some of them are learning BJJ as well. Are these Japanese athletes who started out their athletic careers in freestyle or Greco Roman as opposed to judoka competitors who were trying to cross train or make the switch over to wrestling?

Also, of wrestlers from the various nationalities who have trained with, which nations have stood out to you as far as having wrestlers who are the opposite of the Japanese, who apparently "train like pussies", in terms of mental toughness and with the most flat out, hardcore and intense training and who are far and away the least likely to crack under pressure? Does that distinction go to Americans, Russians, former Soviet Bloc/satellite nations,Koreans, Chinese and in particular wrestlers from Mongolia or Xinjiang, Cubans, Iranians or a different nationality?

LOL, judokas dont switch over to wrestling, unless its before adolescent years. Its just way too competitive to do that. When you are wrestling at the Olympic level, you have been doing it your entire life.

Other countries come to America to train because we train harder than everyone else. They treat it as a hard building phase in their periodization schedule. No one shows up here and excels as a team, but there are some studs that do and some teams that are really tough.

Denmark had guys who were as bad ass as they come, including Mark Madsen.
Iranians never trained with us, neither did Russians.
Cubans are easy to break, so are Chinese, Kazakshstan, Uzbekistan, India, Norwegians, any south American, lots of eastern bloc countries.
Overall guys who were pretty tough that could handle the training were Serbia, Sweden had some super tough motherfuckers, Korea, Armenia and Turkey was 50/50, Bulgaria had some nasty dudes who had no problem fighting, although their MMA was horrible, they would throw down and wrestle hard - borderline fighting.

 

[emax]

LOL, judokas dont switch over to wrestling, unless its before adolescent years. Its just way too competitive to do that. When you are wrestling at the Olympic level, you have been doing it your entire life.

Other countries come to America to train because we train harder than everyone else. They treat it as a hard building phase in their periodization schedule. No one shows up here and excels as a team, but there are some studs that do and some teams that are really tough.

Denmark had guys who were as bad ass as they come, including Mark Madsen.
Iranians never trained with us, neither did Russians.
Cubans are easy to break, so are Chinese, Kazakshstan, Uzbekistan, India, Norwegians, any south American, lots of eastern bloc countries.
Overall guys who were pretty tough that could handle the training were Serbia, Sweden had some super tough motherfuckers, Korea, Armenia and Turkey was 50/50, Bulgaria had some nasty dudes who had no problem fighting, although their MMA was horrible, they would throw down and wrestle hard - borderline fighting.

A couple things that are surprising - that Kazakhstan has guys easy to break; I figure many of them would be Russian wrestlers since Kazakhstan is 50 % ethnic Russian. And also about Norweigans vs Swedes; Norway and Sweden are very similar culturally and so the difference between their wrestlers is surprising to me. I would think Norweigans and Swedes are about equal in toughness, perhaps Sweden is better at getting their toughest athletes over to wrestling since wrestling is most established there.

I presume you can say with confidence that if you even look at American wrestlers in Div 1 NCAA collegiate wrestling, the Minnesotas, Oklahomas, Iowas and so on, that, outside of wrestling, there are not really any athletes in the world - even Olympic competitors - who truly train harder and at higher intensity than these guys. And so it is even more the case when you look at American wrestlers who wanna be in the Olympics. That is the impression I got from your posts, anyway.

 

[Dirty Holt]

A couple things that are surprising - that Kazakhstan has guys easy to break; I figure many of them would be Russian wrestlers since Kazakhstan is 50 % ethnic Russian. And also about Norweigans vs Swedes; Norway and Sweden are very similar culturally and so the difference between their wrestlers is surprising to me. I would think Norweigans and Swedes are about equal in toughness, perhaps Sweden is better at getting their toughest athletes over to wrestling since wrestling is most established there.

Kazakhs are nothing like Russians. Kazakhs are their own race. They live and train way differently, look way differently, and have much different attitudes.

You shouldnt try to base a country's sport culture based on its civilian cultures. They couldnt be more different. Swedes and Norwegians may have similiar ways of life for average people, but for wrestlers, their culture and environment are much different. It is to the point that Norway has hired a Swede to run their team. The culture of a team can change every Olympic quad, where as the culture of a country wont change for centuries.

 

[emax]

Kazakhs are nothing like Russians. Kazakhs are their own race. They live and train way differently, look way differently, and have much different attitudes.

So then I guess for Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Cuba, guys like Yusup Abdusalomov, Artur Taymazov, Soslan Tigiev, Yoel Romero and Mija

 

[Dirty Holt]

So then I guess for Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Cuba, guys like Yusup Abdusalomov, Artur Taymazov, Soslan Tigiev, Yoel Romero and Mija

 

[emax]

Again, you are basing training intensity on competition success, which are not mutual. How often have you seen Taymazov, Tigiev, Yusup, Romero, and Lopez train? I have watched all of them train. Romero trains in America, not Cuba. Lopez trains like he is on vacation. Very rarely does he even raise his heart rate. Tigiev, Taymazov and Abdusalamov are all Russians who train in the Russian Caucuses, not in the countries they wrestle for. They train hard. Like I said, Russians train hard.

It isnt about where they were born or how many medals they have that determines their traning culture, its about where they train that determines their intensity, not the other way around.

Azerbaijan never comes to USA. From watching them on youtube, they train fairly hard, but its hard to say without first or second hand knowledge.

I think that makes it more clear. I think I am making the mistake because I keep forgetting that nationality and their Olympic success are fundamentally different than the location of their training centers and what training teams they have. And that is why you can have two guys from the same ethnic background were born and raised in, say, Tajikistan, Turkey or Uzbekistan, have one of them go to a training center in Russia or the United States and have the other stay in his home nation to train,hypothetically speaking, and then have them end up with two totally different training styles and intensity. That is now the impression I am getting and that is where I am seeing why many sports observers get it wrong; it is because a lot of them don't realize that there are athletes who train in completely different places and with different teams vs where they compete and live year round.

 

[Dirty Holt]

I think that makes it more clear. I think I am making the mistake because I keep forgetting that nationality and their Olympic success are fundamentally different than the location of their training centers and what training teams they have. And that is why you can have two guys from the same ethnic background were born and raised in, say, Tajikistan, Turkey or Uzbekistan, have one of them go to a training center in Russia or the United States and have the other stay in his home nation to train,hypothetically speaking, and then have them end up with two totally different training styles and intensity. That is now the impression I am getting and that is where I am seeing why many sports observers get it wrong; it is because a lot of them don't realize that there are athletes who train in completely different places and with different teams vs where they compete and live year round.

Moreso that there are guys who dont train with a lot of intensity who also have good competition results.

 

[emax]

Moreso that there are guys who dont train with a lot of intensity who also have good competition results.

It seems that has to do with wrestling smart as well. The Americans' atypical success at the last wrestling Olympics was often attributed to the fact that they wrestled intelligently in a way American wrestlers have not always been known for doing in the past.