Well it seems like a BJJ training center somewhere equipped Maia and Jacare to be able to deal with many, if not necessarily all, Olympic wrestlers and judoka in an MMA setting so I was wondering if training centers like those for BJJ exist in the US, places that could enable BJJ artists to rise to the level of those two I mentioned and where would they be. The training for your ATOS teams may not have given BJJ artists the speed or power or endurance of Olympic judoka or wrestlers but some kind of BJJ training allowed BJJ artists in the UFC to be able to deal with those kinds of grapplers. Where in the US could one go to become the next Maia or Jacare Souza?
Where to go to train BJJ at Olympic level intensity
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Well it seems like a BJJ training center somewhere equipped Maia and Jacare to be able to deal with many, if not necessarily all, Olympic wrestlers and judoka in an MMA setting so I was wondering if training centers like those for BJJ exist in the US, places that could enable BJJ artists to rise to the level of those two I mentioned and where would they be. The training for your ATOS teams may not have given BJJ artists the speed or power or endurance of Olympic judoka or wrestlers but some kind of BJJ training allowed BJJ artists in the UFC to be able to deal with those kinds of grapplers. Where in the US could one go to become the next Maia or Jacare Souza?
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Would you say the difference in intensity is due to working with subs/locks (BJJ)? Or is it just an entirely different mentality altogether along with the mix of hobbyists
Problem is that peak intensity happens in your early 20's, so much of the athletic advantage is lost once they hit MMA. Plus they are fighting in a sport with a different pace.
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the talent pool or lack there of prevent high caliber training of the olympic standard
as another posted stated bjj are business with the majority of clientele being hobbyist
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your going to beat this dead horse alive, mma does not the share the same format as olympic grappling fpr many reasons what next are you going to claim that maia/mcdonald was anomaly
i dont recall any olympian competing in mma at their prime if thats even relevant
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All of the above + talent pool in BJJ is no where near an established sport such as wrestling
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It's called cross training. Jacare/Maia train with multiple high level athletes. World class wrestlers and then Judokas. There is not a one stop shop for public. That place is called the Olympic training center and it's a one sport focus.
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It doesn't exist.
The closest thing you will have is Atos SD, especially in there worlds/adcc training camps. Then they 7 or 8 world champions (at brown or black) on the mat at a time, plus many more high level competitors.
However, Olympic training centers will have at least 2-3 that number of top level athletes who will be training for longer and harder. They also have top doctors, trainers, coaches to help them be able to perform at their best.
Due much higher numbers participating in Judo and Wrestling they have a larger talent pool to chose from. That being said Jacare is top level athlete and I believe you could put him in any sport (that requires power/strength) and he has the potential to be a world/Olympic champion.
Also MMA is a different sport, you could be great at your individual grappling based sport but be unable to adapt it to MMA, or unable develop the skills (striking) that help you to use it.
The closest thing you will have is Atos SD, especially in there worlds/adcc training camps. Then they 7 or 8 world champions (at brown or black) on the mat at a time, plus many more high level competitors.
However, Olympic training centers will have at least 2-3 that number of top level athletes who will be training for longer and harder. They also have top doctors, trainers, coaches to help them be able to perform at their best.
Due much higher numbers participating in Judo and Wrestling they have a larger talent pool to chose from. That being said Jacare is top level athlete and I believe you could put him in any sport (that requires power/strength) and he has the potential to be a world/Olympic champion.
Also MMA is a different sport, you could be great at your individual grappling based sport but be unable to adapt it to MMA, or unable develop the skills (striking) that help you to use it.
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Jacare and Maia train at MMA gyms mainly which are far better equipped than most BJJ gyms because there is more money in MMA.
Olympic athletes as i have said, at least in the sport of judo, dont have the freak athleticism that you see in physical sports, as i have said there are studies that show that they are really not stronger or faster than their non-olympic counterparts, they just have far far better judo.
Also you have to realize that olympic athletes are extremely specialized and periodized to win specific tournaments, the olympic athlete that wins the olympics would beat himself 2 months later. Same with the boxer and MMA fighter.
So if you want to be on the athletic level of an olympic athlete you will need to train like an olympic athlete both on the mat and outside of it.
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EMAX, what you are responding with has nothing to do with the question you asked, nor is any of your debate.
Your post was "where in the USA can I find a training center where the intensity is that of Olympic calibur wrestlers and judokas?"
Every subsequent post has been about how elite level judokas and bjj artists have wins over wrestlers, never mind the fact that 4/7 UFC champs are wrestlers, the other 3 are kickboxers/strikers.
Why dont you just say despite the facts, you feel judokas are superior to wrestlers? Would be a lot quicker to the point.
Your post was "where in the USA can I find a training center where the intensity is that of Olympic calibur wrestlers and judokas?"
Every subsequent post has been about how elite level judokas and bjj artists have wins over wrestlers, never mind the fact that 4/7 UFC champs are wrestlers, the other 3 are kickboxers/strikers.
Why dont you just say despite the facts, you feel judokas are superior to wrestlers? Would be a lot quicker to the point.
I do not feel that way about your last sentence at all, just for the record. I have been quite frustrated with those who think so. I think I have also explicitly contested the notion that judokas are superior to wrestlers in the past as well when other Sherdoggers brought it up, here is one example I found from my earlier postings: http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2...make-mess-judo-movements-2230101/index22.html. Here, I was pointing out BJJ guys, not judoka, who have been able to contend with Olympic level wrestlers and judoka such as Maia and Jacare. Judoka vs wrestlers per se was never the point in the thread or in any of the following posts.
Perhaps there was a misinterpretation of my original post since I meant to ask specifically about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu training centers to start this thread off - I was never in doubt for a millisecond that wrestling Olympic training centers can match or surpass the training intensity of Olympic Judo training centers. When you mentioned female Olympians getting beat by high school level wrestlers, it did draw my curiosity in that direction. And my original post to you about McMann was meant to be speculative of the type of commentary about what people here would say, not my personal views. But the other posts were meant to address the success of BJJ artists vs wrestlers and the ability of said BJJ artists to have similar success in MMA grappling vs highest level judoka. Again, that is what the examples of Maia and Jacare are about.
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are you opening a gym? where?
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You're confusing different things. Jake Shields or Damien Maia types can be produced at a number of BJJ places in the US, and Brazil. That doesn't mean they were produced by camps that have Olympic-level training (in terms of intensity, structure, and the level of the athletes). They weren't. They trained hard, but not like Olympic athletes train. The sport just isn't set up that way.
When you talk about Jake Shields being able to neutralize the grappling of an Olympic wrestler or Judoka (though he didn't look too hot against Hector Lombard), that's because it's MMA. It's not just the level of your grappling training versus his. If Maia and Shields can deal with other high level grapplers in MMA it's because they're very skilled and experienced, not because they trained their BJJ like an Olympic team would.
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See, now for all I've bashed TLI and Lloyd, I will say that what he had going at his team (aside from the bizarre sexual stuff) with the athletes being supported and living in what was essentially a dorm, training multiple times a day with specialized coaches, and competing on a structured basis, is closer to what I think of as Olympic-style training. I'm not saying it's the same level of sophistication or level of athletes, but it's closer than having a big BJJ team with competition classes and a handful of top guys just grappling hard against each other as much as possible, and doing some S&C work on the side.
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Okay, this is a completely different question than asking whether there's a place in the US that trains BJJ at the level of Olympic athletes. You're basically asking what the best BJJ academies are for athletes who are very serious about training. In other words, the best competition teams.
Atos San Diego and Alliance Atlanta are the ones that come to mind for me. I can't think of many other places that have a concentration of top guys regularly, it's mostly like a top guy here, another one there, etc. Maybe Renzo Gracie for MMA BJJ.
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You are confusing training intensity and level, with athleticism, with technical ability. These are 3 different things. Maia can hang with top grapplers because of his technical ability, not because he's a great athlete or trained BJJ like an Olympian (back when he was training straight BJJ).
Your question keeps changing. Now you're asking where you could train to "deal with" top grapplers of other styles. A number of places. Where can you become the next Maia or Jacare? Again, a different question. Being the next Maia or Jacare (I assume you mean a BJJ star who successfully crosses over to MMA?) depends on a number of factors, including the level of instruction, training, and the individual. A great team is no guarantee. The places I mentioned in my previous post are options. I would add University of Jiu Jitsu, where the Ribeiro brothers are based.
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Im not, and have no desire to.
