Where to go to train BJJ at Olympic level intensity

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by emax, May 14, 2014.

  1. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    Let's say I wanted to find a place where I can train BJJ at the intensity and with grappler's of a similar caliber and athleticism that one would find for Olympic medalists in wrestling or Judo. In other words, if I was looking for a BJJ training center where someone could train BJJ at the intensity and find athletes as tough and explosive as the Olympic medalists in wrestling or Judo, what training centers in the United States would qualify? If I was going to look in Brazil, what training centers would qualify there?
     
  2. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    I don't think you're talking about something that exists. You're talking about sports that are much more established and professionalized.

    Your best bet is training with a serious competition team like Atos in San Diego. But in the end, you're still dealing with a school that is also a business, and is open to the public, including beginners and casual students, so you're not going to find the BJJ equivalent of the Olympic Training Center or the like. The best guys train like pros, but their methods might not be as fine-tuned or sophisticated.
     
  3. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    Does BJJ produce guys who are as much upper level athletes as guys who are in wrestling and/or Judo who medal in the Olympics, if we are talking the most intense BJJ masters and competitors out there? I would think a BJJ guy like Damien Maia would be easily at the level of an Olympic wrestler or judoka, though I recognize that perhaps it is difficult at best to find a place in the States that could produce Damain Maias. Of course, even someone like Jake Sheilds used his BJJ to help him get good enough at grappling so that, at least in an MMA scenario, he could neutralize the grappling of an Olympic wrestler or judoka.
     
  4. Ryo

    Ryo Black Belt

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    Damain Maia? His althetisism is no where near the level of Olympic caliber wrestlers or Judoka. What you're looking for doesnt really exist. The pool of talent, combined with the difference in each sport breeds different athletes. The mentality, and the rules of Judo and wrestling make for different types of athlete.

    Top level wrestlers and Judoka are insanely strong and althetic (for the most part), they make someone like Andre Galvao (who is one of the best athletes to ever compete in BJJ) look average. Speaking about strength, speed and explosiveness of course.

    This has a lot to do with the fact that BJJ philosophy has alot to do with flowing with the go as a wise man once said...

    Different mentalities
     
  5. Sexy Pants

    Sexy Pants Blue Belt

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    TLI has some openings
     
  6. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    Come to my gym. I guarantee you I can give you a level of intensity that an Olympic level wrestler brings. Moving to socal in the next 2 months.
     
  7. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

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    I seriously doubt so, getting the physical numbers of olympic athletes of sports like judo is not that hard (as in requiring exceptional natural athleticism) judo is defined by judo.

    Studies done to brazilians judoka has shown that the ones that compete locally are just as much of an athlete as the ones that are winning international medals, but the judo is simply not there.
     
  8. magick

    magick Green Belt

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    Are they "insanely strong and athletic" because they're at the top, or because they train wrestling and judo?

    What?
     
  9. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    He may not have the speed of Olympic level wrestlers or judoka but if Olympians in wrestling and Judo tried to enter MMA, he could neutralize many, possibly the vast majority. Chael Sonnon was not really at Olympic medalist level but he was rather close to Olympic competitor level and Maia neutralized his grappling, no problem. Matt Lindland actually was an Olympic medalist and Jacare pretty much picked him apart, no trouble there either. Granted, since he is a BJJ artist and a judoka he may not be the greatest example either but he is considered to be high level in BJJ and not really Olympic medalist level in Judo at all.
     
  10. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    I bet you still deal with naysayers, including possibly some here, who think the wrestlers who train at your place are not nearly as intense or high level as international level BJJ artists or judoka. I wonder if you have had to deal with coping strategies for dealing with them. Hell, recently they probably asked, if the wrestlers at your training center are so high level, how come someone like McMann who trrained at a similar place got outclassed so badly by Ronda they way she did? I suspect people have asked you that.
     
  11. silvasurfer5253

    silvasurfer5253 Purple Belt

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    Word. Two great examples.
     
  12. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    You asked for intensity level, not win loss records. Surprised you cant tell the difference. If you want the best win loss record for women's MMA, why even ask? If you want to talk about Olympic calibur Men's wrestlers in the USA, they have faired much better than women with 6 total years of combat sports. Unless you want to go train with women, take a look at how men train, not females, who are getting beat by 14 year old jr high wrestlers.
     
  13. Silverblur

    Silverblur Purple Belt

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    Jacare is definitely a better athlete than most elite wrestlers (including Lindland) but I think you could also argue that he was the best athlete in the history of BJJ, while I don't think he would be even close to the best athlete in Judo or Wrestling.

    On the other hand I don't think Maia is a better athlete than Sonnen, he was just more skilled and had a better night.
     
  14. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    That is true but I think that could be a moot point because Maia and Jacare both showed they could neutralize the grappling of numerous wrestlers and judoka at the Olympic level even if said wrestlers or judoka were superior athletes. And it sure seemed like it was the BJJ training that they had to have obtained somewhere that allowed them to do this. This shows how athleticism also has to be expanded to include skill level too; it was the combination of skills and other athletic components that Jacare and Maia did develop that allowed them to, at least in an MMA fight scenario, pick apart piece by piece quite a few Olympic level wrestlers and judoka who may have had more speed and power.

    So to go back to an original question, working from the notion that a BJJ training center gave Maia and Jacare the kind of skills they needed, where would such training centers exist in the US and what would be some possible names of some of them?
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
  15. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    You are right that I should not have acted as though there is some sort of strong causation or even correlation of the success of women in MMA with the intensity of training of men in wrestling. Now I did become curious though, when you say "not females, who are getting beat by 14 year old jr high wrestlers" does this legit mean females who medal in the Olympics in Judo and wrestling? If that is what you mean, I respect you enough to take your word for it but I imagine quite a few would accuse you of blatant sexism if that is what you meant and did not have some sort of proof of that. The thought of Ronda Rousey, Kayla Harrison or Marti Malloy, for example, being beat by male high school wrestlers, even if they are multiple state champs and nationally ranked, is not gonna be easy for people to wrap their heads around. If that is what you mean I genuinely believe you but that would be challenging for a lot of others to fathom.

    All this said, again you are right that I should have kept it primarily associated with the original topic. And I damn sure don't dispute what you said about your training center providing Olympic level preparation. I ain't ever gonna argue with you there.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2014
  16. Toothless King

    Toothless King Brown Belt

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    it's not unbelievable that high school boy sports can beat women olympic sports

    http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=2281644
     
  17. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    Fair enough. I guess with an athlete like Rousey who has perhaps gives off the biggest impression of being superhuman we have ever seen in MMA when she is in the cage, and a community of fans and critics who genuinely believe she is because of her Judo training, sometimes getting the idea that she is a superhuman of sorts. I mean, I am not sure there is a single, solitary woman on earth of any size and weight who could beat her in an MMA fight or unarmed street fight; I certainly am not sure of such women exist at all outside of Olympic Judo.
     
  18. emax

    emax Black Belt

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    back to the main topic, I guess it should be rephrased a little differently. If one wanted to go to a BJJ center that could allow someone with high level natural athleticism to train so that they develop a combination of grappling skills, leverage abilities, speed and power to deal with Olympic level judoka and wrestlers, even if said judoka or wrestlers may have more speed and/or power, what would be examples of such BJJ centers in the United States? What would be examples of BJJ places in the US that could enable a BJJ artist to have the success against Olympic level wrestlers and judoka that Maia and Jacare had as a result of their BJJ training? Maybe this is a better way to phrase the question I started the thread with.
     
  19. Toothless King

    Toothless King Brown Belt

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    Ronda is not "superhuman". She is the female version of Royce Gracie on the WMMA side.

    Hell, she is not even the most decorated Judoka in MMA.
     
  20. Toothless King

    Toothless King Brown Belt

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    You are not going to find any BJJ school in USA with training intensity equals to Olympic judo/wrestling.

    I used to wrestle in high school. Currently, I train with AOJ and ATOS competition teams twice a week. The training intensity with AOJ/ATOS competition teams are no where near high school wrestling let alone Olympic caliber wrestling team.
     

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