where does Wonderboys karate compare to prime Lyoto Machida?

[Guestx]

True dat...WB's kicks look more TKD-inspired.

A lot of people don't understand the very close relationship that karate and TKD have with each other. The official storyline from the Korean government is that TKD is like a thousand years old, but it very clearly sprang from Shotokan. ITF TKD (a.k.a. traditional Taekwondo, the original TKD as created by General Choi) in particular is quite close to Shotokan. WTF TKD/Olympic TKD is more different and more of its own thing, but it also has a lot in common with karate.

And this really touches on something else, that TKD is not unified. Like with karate, there are different styles. ITF and WTF TKD, while having many similarities, also have some stark differences.

 

[Bacco]

 

[nogdog]

Machida got soundly out struck on the feet by Romero. I doubt Romero would soundly out strike Wonderboy while never attempting a takedown. Though I think Romero could be competitive on the feet with Wonderboy and would ultimately get Wonderboy down and thrash him like he did Machida and Jacare. I think Wonderboy is clearly the better mma striker than Machida and much more athletically gifted.

Wonderboy got dropped standing by Matt Brown (who at the time was not a top-10 fighter) and Jake Ellenberger (who at the time was ranked #9).

In contrast, Machida never got dropped by strikes until his first title defense against Shogun. In fact, Machida won the LHW title while undefeated while KO'ing the undefeated champ at the time Rashad Evans. Lyoto fought the majority of his career at LHW, where fighters ostensibly hit harder than Welterweights. Machida got dropped by Jon Jones, the current #1P4P fighter and one who's in the conversation for GOAT status (top 4 - Fedor, Anderson, GSP, Jones in some order). He also got KO'd by the GNP of Yoel Romero and hurt badly by Luke Rockhold - the recent #1 contender and current MW champ, respectively.

So, Lyoto wasn't dropped by strikes until his 17th professional MMA fight fight - his first title defense, at LHW. In contrast, Stephen Thompson got dropped by strikes in his 7th fight and then 12th professional MMA fight - against a non-top 10 and the then #9 WW fighter.

Wonderboy's very good, and his performance last night was very impressive, but he's not some untouchable striker. Yes, he has excellent offense, but he's been dropped by a then not top-10 and then #9 WW fighter. If he plugs up his striking defense, he can go a long way, maybe even become champ. Of course, his offense is deadly and his offense is a great "defense," so to speak, but he's not invincible.

Rory, Maia, Lawler, Woodley all could be very difficult, even if winnable, fights for Wonderboy.

 

[ArtemV]

One is a better counter striker, the other is the better offensive striker.

 

[Ibm]

Machida is a much more elusive fighter with byfar the best timming in mma.

 

[josh345]

Machida got soundly out struck on the feet by Romero. I doubt Romero would soundly out strike Wonderboy while never attempting a takedown. Though I think Romero could be competitive on the feet with Wonderboy and would ultimately get Wonderboy down and thrash him like he did Machida and Jacare. I think Wonderboy is clearly the better mma striker than Machida and much more athletically gifted.

Machida hardly threw any punches and was timid as hell. Even jack slack pointed out that machida was a jabbing timid non threat in his words. I think he backed into the smaller cage and got popped one time too. Romero may still have been able to wrestle him down and finish him but the striking he was not soundly outstruck. It was a round a piece if I recall

 

[hugemmafan22]

Wonderboy got dropped standing by Matt Brown (who at the time was not a top-10 fighter) and Jake Ellenberger (who at the time was ranked #9).

In contrast, Machida never got dropped by strikes until his first title defense against Shogun. In fact, Machida won the LHW title while undefeated while KO'ing the undefeated champ at the time Rashad Evans. Lyoto fought the majority of his career at LHW, where fighters ostensibly hit harder than Welterweights. Machida got dropped by Jon Jones, the current #1P4P fighter and one who's in the conversation for GOAT status (top 4 - Fedor, Anderson, GSP, Jones in some order). He also got KO'd by the GNP of Yoel Romero and hurt badly by Luke Rockhold - the recent #1 contender and current MW champ, respectively.

So, Lyoto wasn't dropped by strikes until his 17th professional MMA fight fight - his first title defense, at LHW. In contrast, Stephen Thompson got dropped by strikes in his 7th fight and then 12th professional MMA fight - against a non-top 10 and the then #9 WW fighter.

Wonderboy's very good, and his performance last night was very impressive, but he's not some untouchable striker. Yes, he has excellent offense, but he's been dropped by a then not top-10 and then #9 WW fighter. If he plugs up his striking defense, he can go a long way, maybe even become champ. Of course, his offense is deadly and his offense is a great "defense," so to speak, but he's not invincible.

Rory, Maia, Lawler, Woodley all could be very difficult, even if winnable, fights for Wonderboy.

I think u meant to quote somebody else I never questioned Machidas chin and claimed he gets dropped often. So I don't know why u brought up when they got dropped in what pro fights. I just think Wonderboy is considerably more talented than Machida, just by watching how they move and fight. He also seems to be more confident than Machida which is huge in fighting.

 

[hugemmafan22]

Machida hardly threw any punches and was timid as hell. Even jack slack pointed out that machida was a jabbing timid non threat in his words. I think he backed into the smaller cage and got popped one time too. Romero may still have been able to wrestle him down and finish him but the striking he was not soundly outstruck. It was a round a piece if I recall

Well if jack slack said it than it must be true. It's easy to claim when someone gets beaten that they weren't at their best or were off. Machida has soundly losses enough times that even his biggest fans and "Machida Era" people cannot just chalk it up to him being off that night.

 

[josh345]

Well if jack slack said it than it must be true. It's easy to claim when someone gets beaten that they weren't at their best or were off. Machida has soundly losses enough times that even his biggest fans and "Machida Era" people cannot just chalk it up to him being off that night.

Romero may have still beaten him. I just feel that he could have put up a better striking performance. I'll never forgive rogan for jinxing him with the Machida era lol

 

[nogdog]

I think u meant to quote somebody else I never questioned Machidas chin and claimed he gets dropped often. So I don't know why u brought up when they got dropped in what pro fights. I just think Wonderboy is considerably more talented than Machida, just by watching how they move and fight. He also seems to be more confident than Machida which is huge in fighting.

You said Wonderboy is clearly a better MMA striker than Machida. I showed that Wonderboy got dropped by lesser competition compared to Machida. I'm not talking trying to defend Machida's chin or suggest who can take bigger shots - I'm just saying that if Wonderboy got dropped by considerably lesser competition (a then non top-10 fighter and a #9 WW fighter), it's hard to say Wonderboy's "the clearly better MMA striker" than Machida.

Wonderboy is more confident, for sure, I'll give you that.

 

[RoninJin]

Machida managed to beat Rashad, Tito, Thiago Silva, Couture, Hendo, Bader, Munoz, Mousasi, Franklin and CB Dolloway having this "glass chin". 7 out of those 10 I mentioned Lyoto managed to knockout.

Not to mention, Machida at one point held the highest percentage of not getting hit or losing a single round. If you look at his frame, he is much small when compare to guys like Tito, Couture, where they are expert in cutting weights for streghth advantage. Machida most of the time comes in with a couple of lbs less than the limit.

 

[jtruelove]

It's hard to make that comparison. Machida is a fighter who was always the smaller one against most, if not all of his opponents, Thompson on the other hand has some reach and isn't undersized as a welterweight for sure.

Machida is one of the few fighters that I would bet my house that never used PED's. Dude didn't even cut weight, as far as I know, when he fought at 205, he was actually weighing 205 lbs inside the cage, he showed up a few times at weight-ins with less than 205 lbs.
He dropped to 185 and he STILL looks undersized and overpowered against guys like Weidman, Rockhold and Romero.

So, it's hard to compare IMO.
If Thompson was undersized and overpowered in his weight division and had less reach than most if not all of his opponents, would he fight aggressively or would he move around and always look for a counter?

 

[OmegaRugal]

He doesn't even have a glass chin. I remember he ate a hard right hand from shogun in the third frame of their first fight. Romero hit him with some bombs standing and he was ok.

Machida has bad recovery. Once he is rocked ... it's over for him.

 

[OmegaRugal]

It's hard to make that comparison. Machida is a fighter who was always the smaller one against most, if not all of his opponents, Thompson on the other hand has some reach and isn't undersized as a welterweight for sure.

Machida is one of the few fighters that I would bet my house that never used PED's. Dude didn't even cut weight, as far as I know, when he fought at 205, he was actually weighing 205 lbs inside the cage, he showed up a few times at weight-ins with less than 205 lbs.
He dropped to 185 and he STILL looks undersized and overpowered against guys like Weidman, Rockhold and Romero.

So, it's hard to compare IMO.
If Thompson was undersized and overpowered in his weight division and had less reach than most if not all of his opponents, would he fight aggressively or would he move around and always look for a counter?

I agree with most of what you said except the never took PED part.

The Machida that fought Rockhold looked very different from the one that fought Weidman n Dollaway.

I would not be shocked about anyone.

 

[HHJ]

This post has rustled me far more than I'd like to admit. Does everyone who's been KO'd by another elite fighter also have a glass chin, or do you just like to use stupid phrases because of your basic understanding?

damn right,call out these neanderthals for their bullshit.

 

[HHJ]

I have to watch more of wonderboys fights but ive allways been impressed with what i have seen. Machida at his best is an absolute pleasure to watch.Even after people developed techniques that worked against him,it was always a difficult style to deal with.Weidman gassed himself out trying to keep up with him.

 

[mkt]

The main difference is Thompson doesn't have a glass chin like Lyoto.

Lyoto has been KO'd on his feet one time in 29 fights. Lately he's mostly been susceptible to GnP, not stand-up. His one KO loss (on the feet) was from a powerful, behind the ear punch from Shogun. He's also absorbed shots from Shogun (first fight), Rampage, Mousasi, Romero and others without going down. So I'd say this is quite the myth.

Granted, Machida seems pretty fragile at this point, but prime Machida wasn't particularly "chinny."

 

[Lawblaw]

Thompson is 57-0

That's crazy

Did Machida have any kickboxing bouts?

 

[KantoTerror]

Machida got soundly out struck on the feet by Romero. I doubt Romero would soundly out strike Wonderboy while never attempting a takedown. Though I think Romero could be competitive on the feet with Wonderboy and would ultimately get Wonderboy down and thrash him like he did Machida and Jacare. I think Wonderboy is clearly the better mma striker than Machida and much more athletically gifted.

I think Wonderboy would do better vs. Romero. Machida is a defensive fighter and waits for openings. Wonderboy keeps his opponents off balance by diversing his attacks and feints. Watch the Hendricks fight. He fakes a kick to see a reaction from Hendricks...then he goes for a different target.

 

[LukeSkyRutten]

The main difference is Thompson doesn't have a glass chin like Lyoto.

We haven't seen him hit by LHW's, so that's a rather irrelevant statement.