Where does Wilder rank among all time great HWs?

[LangfordBarrow]

Yea but 6 ft 7 Deontay..?

How is Tyson going to get on the inside with a guy with that reach..

Bobbing and weaving?

 

[Philtard]

Bobbing and weaving?

Yea probably, dudes just put Tyson at the top of that list. Said wlad would get smashed by Lewis's jab and that lennox wouldn't be able to out jab Deontay because of him out reaching Lennox becasue he's 6ft 7.

So I'm assuming Tyson also wouldn't be able to get on the inside becasue of deontays length.

It's not my argument mate..

 

[LangfordBarrow]

surely, you're not serious.

I'm poppin the jab serious son.

 

[HardasNAILZ]

One of the many things that made young, peak tyson great was his ability to close distance very fast. Tyson had fast feet and fast hands and that peek-a-boo style that allowed him to slip, duck and avoid punches from guys who were longer and taller than him...as he got older, his defense deteriorated, but watch tyson against tony tucker and pinklon thomas and tyrell biggs...tall guys with a long reach who couldn't hold him off...not saying it would be easy for tyson, because wilder also packs freakish power...but once he got into close quarters, tyson's ferocity was enough to rip some of the biggest, strongest guys of his era to shreds

Tyson was a fucking bum who got KOd by journeyman James Douglas.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

what conspiracy did i bring up?

You know that OTHER thing, that caused the SHORT count, for those REASONS. Then there was that whole other "rape" thing that got him incarcerated.

 

[svmVR2097]

Trevor Berbick went 2 rounds. Lost both. Larry Holmes 4 rounds. Lost the all 4.

Holmes was 38, 15+ years into his career and coming off back to back losses and a 21 month layoff and was an 8 to 1 underdog, though he did go on to beat Mercer a few years later and Trevor Berbick since his back to back losses had faced guys with a combined record at the time of 151-52-4 in 9 fights and was a 6-1 underdog in the Tyson fight and in the Pinklon Thomas fight before was a 6.5-1 underdog.

Tyson never beat a "great" fighter at the time he fought them in his prime other than Spinks(who was always an undersized light heavyweight in the heavyweight division). When he was in his prime he ducked Holyfield in 91 and then went on to lose to Douglas. Also delayed the Lewis match by 6 years which he probably had a much better chance of winning in 96 vs 2002.

Tyson had a very short prime and peak of his prime and only won the fights he was heavily favored to win

 

[spacetime]

Holmes was 38, 15+ years into his career and coming off back to back losses and a 21 month layoff and was an 8 to 1 underdog, though he did go on to beat Mercer a few years later and Trevor Berbick since his back to back losses had faced guys with a combined record at the time of 151-52-4 in 9 fights and was a 6-1 underdog in the Tyson fight and in the Pinklon Thomas fight before was a 6.5-1 underdog.

Tyson never beat a "great" fighter at the time he fought them in his prime other than Spinks(who was always an undersized light heavyweight in the heavyweight division). When he was in his prime he ducked Holyfield in 91 and then went on to lose to Douglas. Also delayed the Lewis match by 6 years which he probably had a much better chance of winning in 96 vs 2002.

Tyson had a very short prime and peak of his prime and only won the fights he was heavily favored to win

Point is he won them going away, minus the Douglas fight. Ortiz is not a great fighter and he almost stopped Wilder.

 

[aries]

you probably notice i respond to most posts directed at me...but i think you know nothing in your last post was worth responding to.

That's fine with me as everybody can see that you couldn't respond to my salient points. Nice way of trying to style it out though but people aren't dumb.

 

[aries]

Yea probably, dudes just put Tyson at the top of that list. Said wlad would get smashed by Lewis's jab and that lennox wouldn't be able to out jab Deontay because of him out reaching Lennox becasue he's 6ft 7.

So I'm assuming Tyson also wouldn't be able to get on the inside becasue of deontays length.

It's not my argument mate..

TS is talking shit, Lennox Lewis has an 84" reach where as Deontay's is 83".

 

[Sunfish]

Hi dildo face, sorry I mean @TownBiz shy don’t you answer any serious questions. Why are you just hanging around being an obnoxious cunt. Everyone has called your bullshit and you don’t walk off. You are shit, ydksab and fuck off dickhead.

 

[PUO3]

TS is talking shit, Lennox Lewis has an 84" reach where as Deontay's is 83".

Dont forget that Wilder is also stronger and bigger lol.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Hi dildo face, sorry I mean @TownBiz shy don’t you answer any serious questions. Why are you just hanging around being an obnoxious cunt. Everyone has called your bullshit and you don’t walk off. You are shit, ydksab and fuck off dickhead.

Yea not sure why the mods have continued to allow this blantant trolling to go on

I'm pretty sure he's @Scyther's alternate account ...

He did this shit in the war room and Mayberry with this flat earth nonsense

 

[TownBiz]

Holmes was 38, 15+ years into his career and coming off back to back losses and a 21 month layoff and was an 8 to 1 underdog, though he did go on to beat Mercer a few years later and Trevor Berbick since his back to back losses had faced guys with a combined record at the time of 151-52-4 in 9 fights and was a 6-1 underdog in the Tyson fight and in the Pinklon Thomas fight before was a 6.5-1 underdog.

Tyson never beat a "great" fighter at the time he fought them in his prime other than Spinks(who was always an undersized light heavyweight in the heavyweight division). When he was in his prime he ducked Holyfield in 91 and then went on to lose to Douglas. Also delayed the Lewis match by 6 years which he probably had a much better chance of winning in 96 vs 2002.

Tyson had a very short prime and peak of his prime and only won the fights he was heavily favored to win

when you say tyson didn't beat a "great" fighter in their prime, who do you mean? you talking about holyfield who went 1-2 against bowe, 0-2 against lewis and 1-1 against michael moorer?...is that the "great" fighter in his prime you're talking about? the same holy who struggled with vaughn bean and came thisclose to getting stopped by bert cooper?


This may come as a surprise to you, but at the time tyson faced holyfield for the first time, holy was considered over-the-hill, basically a fighter past his prime who had suffered health-issues with his heart and didn't really stand a chance against tyson. holyfield was supposed to be a stepping stone for a tyson-bowe fight. but holy upset the odds against tyson and for that win, is considered a great fighter.... however, if the fight had gone as expected, with tyson stopping holy in the mid-rounds, you and everybody would be saying tyson beat an old cruiserwt. so, tyson wouldn't have got any credit for that win over the fighter you now consider to be a “great”...the irony here is that holyfield's legacy as a great fighter is based largely on his wins over tyson...but if tyson was not a great fighter himself, why would those wins matter? i'm just saying, holy is not considered a great, great fighter for beating alex stewart, is he?


secondly, you’re probably referring to lennox lewis...the OTHER great fighter tyson lost to.... i have lennox #3 on my list, so i do consider him a great fighter, but let's be honest...this is lennox lews, the guy who got ko'd by hasim rahman for crying out loud...and oliver mccall, one of tony tucker's victims. lennox who fought life and death with mercer...and vitali. yeah, the tyson who fought lennox was way past his prime...


But let's look at the guys tyson DID beat. So, he wiped out the 3 champs at hw, tucker, bonecrusher and berbick. All three were deserving champs. tucker beat the man who eventually beat tyson...he also beat james broad, orlin norris and oliver mccall, the guy who ko’d your “great” lewis. Berbick was probably the best of the three...went 15 hard rounds with larry holmes, ko'd john tate and beat pinklon thomas who was, at the time, considered the best hw in the world. bonecrusher smith ko'd mike weaver, tim witherspoond and frank bruno...he also gave the great larry holmes a helluva scare and came close to stopping larry.


Well, none of those guys won even a round against tyson...tyson became the first man to unify the title since ali. that by itself makes him a great fighter...what other hw in modern times has repeated tyson’s feat? tyson restored order to the chaos and confusion of the hw div in the 80's by dominating HIS era.


Now, lets talk about spinks and ruddock and holmes.... spinks had beaten the great larry holmes twice....if spinks was nothing more than undersized lhw, how did he manage that? i have holmes #4 all time. clearly spinks was a legit hw champ..he may have been small for a hw, but that didn’t stop him from annihilating Gerry cooney and Stefan tangstad, two MUCH bigger, stronger hws. Spinks had significant advantages in height, reach and experience over tyson…tyson blew him out in 91 seconds.


Holmes came back from retirement to lose to Tyson, but the idea that holmes was an old, washed up fighter, is disproven by the fact he LATER gave holyfield one of holy’s toughest fights and he also BEAT mercer, who was considered a top hw of the 90's era which is considered second only to the 70's in terms of quality fighters….so, to discount tyson’s blowout of holmes is blatant cherry-picking.


Next, we have razor Ruddock…granted ruddock’s resume after Tyson wasn’t that great, but BEFORE Tyson, Ruddock was considered to be one of the scariest fighters around. He damn near killed Michael dokes…he damn near killed bonecrusher…holyfield and the rest of the how div ducked him…If you watched boxing in the late 80’s, Ruddock was the guy who was supposed to beat the great mike Tyson and people made it seem like Tyson was ducking him…Tyson and Ruddock had two of the most violent fights I’ve ever seen…and Ruddock was never the same again…Ruddock was an incredible specimen and Tyson literally destroyed him, broke his bones and all.


But what makes Tyson really special was the fact that he was in jail for 4 years....and came back out and went about unifying the hw title that had split apart in three after he lost the title!...he did this by stopping Bruno and seldon…name me another fighter who could go to jail for FOUR years of his prime and come out and unify the hw title. The only one who came close was ali…he was in exile for 3 years. But not complete exile, because he was allowed to box exhibitions during his ban. Tyson was in jail the entire time…do you know what an absence of that long a period does to a fighter? ali wasn't the same after his 3-year exile...tyson came back from not fighting for FOUR years of his prime and UNIFIED the hw title. Yeah, he lost to holyfield, but lemme ask you this…if holyfield had spent FOUR YEARS in jail and wasn’t allowed to fight even ONCE during that period, what makes you think holy would be able to come back after 4 years and become hw champ again? Not gonna happen…if the tables were turned and Tyson had stayed active, growing and developing as a pro and holy was in jail for 4 years, came out and faced any of the champs, much less tyson, he’d get ktfo.


I read the same story as you did that appeared in SI many years ago about Tyson never beating a great fighter…the dude who wrote that article was entirely misinformed and just wrong. For example, who did larry holmes beat that was a great fighter? Who did joe louis beat that was a great fighter? The answer is NOBODY…ali fought great fighters and struggled with them, such as frazier and Norton…lewis never faced a great fighter in that fighter's prime…holyfield has a LOSING record against the fighters who could be considered standouts of his era... and he's tied with a lhw who moved up to hw and beat him for the title. But people wanna forget the great stuff Tyson did and judge him ONLY on the portion of his career that happened AFTER the 4 years in jail.


And don’t go popping off and stating the obvious about how this is a long dissertation-type post. I wrote it, so I know how long it is…but somebody has to be fair and set the record straight about tyson’s career and we all know it aint you.

 

[eternaldarkness]

when you say tyson didn't beat a "great" fighter in their prime, who do you mean? you talking about holyfield who went 1-2 against bowe, 0-2 against lewis and 1-1 against michael moorer?...is that the "great" fighter in his prime you're talking about? the same holy who struggled with vaughn bean and came thisclose to getting stopped by bert cooper?


This may come as a surprise to you, but at the time tyson faced holyfield for the first time, holy was considered over-the-hill, basically a fighter past his prime who had suffered health-issues with his heart and didn't really stand a chance against tyson. holyfield was supposed to be a stepping stone for a tyson-bowe fight. but holy upset the odds against tyson and for that win, is considered a great fighter.... however, if the fight had gone as expected, with tyson stopping holy in the mid-rounds, you and everybody would be saying tyson beat an old cruiserwt. so, tyson wouldn't have got any credit for that win over the fighter you now consider to be a “great”...the irony here is that holyfield's legacy as a great fighter is based largely on his wins over tyson...but if tyson was not a great fighter himself, why would those wins matter? i'm just saying, holy is not considered a great, great fighter for beating alex stewart, is he?


secondly, you’re probably referring to lennox lewis...the OTHER great fighter tyson lost to.... i have lennox #3 on my list, so i do consider him a great fighter, but let's be honest...this is lennox lews, the guy who got ko'd by hasim rahman for crying out loud...and oliver mccall, one of tony tucker's victims. lennox who fought life and death with mercer...and vitali. yeah, the tyson who fought lennox was way past his prime...


But let's look at the guys tyson DID beat. So, he wiped out the 3 champs at hw, tucker, bonecrusher and berbick. All three were deserving champs. tucker beat the man who eventually beat tyson...he also beat james broad, orlin norris and oliver mccall, the guy who ko’d your “great” lewis. Berbick was probably the best of the three...went 15 hard rounds with larry holmes, ko'd john tate and beat pinklon thomas who was, at the time, considered the best hw in the world. bonecrusher smith ko'd mike weaver, tim witherspoond and frank bruno...he also gave the great larry holmes a helluva scare and came close to stopping larry.


Well, none of those guys won even a round against tyson...tyson became the first man to unify the title since ali. that by itself makes him a great fighter...what other hw in modern times has repeated tyson’s feat? tyson restored order to the chaos and confusion of the hw div in the 80's by dominating HIS era.


Now, lets talk about spinks and ruddock and holmes.... spinks had beaten the great larry holmes twice....if spinks was nothing more than undersized lhw, how did he manage that? i have holmes #4 all time. clearly spinks was a legit hw champ..he may have been small for a hw, but that didn’t stop him from annihilating Gerry cooney and Stefan tangstad, two MUCH bigger, stronger hws. Spinks had significant advantages in height, reach and experience over tyson…tyson blew him out in 91 seconds.


Holmes came back from retirement to lose to Tyson, but the idea that holmes was an old, washed up fighter, is disproven by the fact he LATER gave holyfield one of holy’s toughest fights and he also BEAT mercer, who was considered a top hw of the 90's era which is considered second only to the 70's in terms of quality fighters….so, to discount tyson’s blowout of holmes is blatant cherry-picking.


Next, we have razor Ruddock…granted ruddock’s resume after Tyson wasn’t that great, but BEFORE Tyson, Ruddock was considered to be one of the scariest fighters around. He damn near killed Michael dokes…he damn near killed bonecrusher…holyfield and the rest of the how div ducked him…If you watched boxing in the late 80’s, Ruddock was the guy who was supposed to beat the great mike Tyson and people made it seem like Tyson was ducking him…Tyson and Ruddock had two of the most violent fights I’ve ever seen…and Ruddock was never the same again…Ruddock was an incredible specimen and Tyson literally destroyed him, broke his bones and all.


But what makes Tyson really special was the fact that he was in jail for 4 years....and came back out and went about unifying the hw title that had split apart in three after he lost the title!...he did this by stopping Bruno and seldon…name me another fighter who could go to jail for FOUR years of his prime and come out and unify the hw title. The only one who came close was ali…he was in exile for 3 years. But not complete exile, because he was allowed to box exhibitions during his ban. Tyson was in jail the entire time…do you know what an absence of that long a period does to a fighter? ali wasn't the same after his 3-year exile...tyson came back from not fighting for FOUR years of his prime and UNIFIED the hw title. Yeah, he lost to holyfield, but lemme ask you this…if holyfield had spent FOUR YEARS in jail and wasn’t allowed to fight even ONCE during that period, what makes you think holy would be able to come back after 4 years and become hw champ again? Not gonna happen…if the tables were turned and Tyson had stayed active, growing and developing as a pro and holy was in jail for 4 years, came out and faced any of the champs, much less tyson, he’d get ktfo.


I read the same story as you did that appeared in SI many years ago about Tyson never beating a great fighter…the dude who wrote that article was entirely misinformed and just wrong. For example, who did larry holmes beat that was a great fighter? Who did joe louis beat that was a great fighter? The answer is NOBODY…ali fought great fighters and struggled with them, such as frazier and Norton…lewis never faced a great fighter in his prime…holyfield LOST to most of the fighters who could be considered standouts of his era. But people wanna forget the great stuff Tyson did and judge him ONLY on the portion of his career that happened AFTER the 4 years in jail.


And don’t go popping off and stating the obvious about how this is a long dissertation-type post. I wrote it, so I know how long it is…but somebody has to be fair and set the record straight about tyson’s career and we all know it aint you.

sorry i didn't catch that. what did you essay?

 

[TownBiz]

sorry i didn't catch that. what did you essay?

wasn't talking to you...

 

[TownBiz]

Yea probably, dudes just put Tyson at the top of that list. Said wlad would get smashed by Lewis's jab and that lennox wouldn't be able to out jab Deontay because of him out reaching Lennox becasue he's 6ft 7.

So I'm assuming Tyson also wouldn't be able to get on the inside becasue of deontays length.

It's not my argument mate..

yeah, wlad with his bob and weave style would have lennox missing all over the place while wlad worked his way inside.

 

[ricioyourdoom]

He ranks nowhere for me, still basically fought nobody and got rocked by a 40 year old fossil.

 

[DeJulez]

when you say tyson didn't beat a "great" fighter in their prime, who do you mean? you talking about holyfield who went 1-2 against bowe, 0-2 against lewis and 1-1 against michael moorer?...is that the "great" fighter in his prime you're talking about? the same holy who struggled with vaughn bean and came thisclose to getting stopped by bert cooper?


This may come as a surprise to you, but at the time tyson faced holyfield for the first time, holy was considered over-the-hill, basically a fighter past his prime who had suffered health-issues with his heart and didn't really stand a chance against tyson. holyfield was supposed to be a stepping stone for a tyson-bowe fight. but holy upset the odds against tyson and for that win, is considered a great fighter.... however, if the fight had gone as expected, with tyson stopping holy in the mid-rounds, you and everybody would be saying tyson beat an old cruiserwt. so, tyson wouldn't have got any credit for that win over the fighter you now consider to be a “great”...the irony here is that holyfield's legacy as a great fighter is based largely on his wins over tyson...but if tyson was not a great fighter himself, why would those wins matter? i'm just saying, holy is not considered a great, great fighter for beating alex stewart, is he?


secondly, you’re probably referring to lennox lewis...the OTHER great fighter tyson lost to.... i have lennox #3 on my list, so i do consider him a great fighter, but let's be honest...this is lennox lews, the guy who got ko'd by hasim rahman for crying out loud...and oliver mccall, one of tony tucker's victims. lennox who fought life and death with mercer...and vitali. yeah, the tyson who fought lennox was way past his prime...


But let's look at the guys tyson DID beat. So, he wiped out the 3 champs at hw, tucker, bonecrusher and berbick. All three were deserving champs. tucker beat the man who eventually beat tyson...he also beat james broad, orlin norris and oliver mccall, the guy who ko’d your “great” lewis. Berbick was probably the best of the three...went 15 hard rounds with larry holmes, ko'd john tate and beat pinklon thomas who was, at the time, considered the best hw in the world. bonecrusher smith ko'd mike weaver, tim witherspoond and frank bruno...he also gave the great larry holmes a helluva scare and came close to stopping larry.


Well, none of those guys won even a round against tyson...tyson became the first man to unify the title since ali. that by itself makes him a great fighter...what other hw in modern times has repeated tyson’s feat? tyson restored order to the chaos and confusion of the hw div in the 80's by dominating HIS era.


Now, lets talk about spinks and ruddock and holmes.... spinks had beaten the great larry holmes twice....if spinks was nothing more than undersized lhw, how did he manage that? i have holmes #4 all time. clearly spinks was a legit hw champ..he may have been small for a hw, but that didn’t stop him from annihilating Gerry cooney and Stefan tangstad, two MUCH bigger, stronger hws. Spinks had significant advantages in height, reach and experience over tyson…tyson blew him out in 91 seconds.


Holmes came back from retirement to lose to Tyson, but the idea that holmes was an old, washed up fighter, is disproven by the fact he LATER gave holyfield one of holy’s toughest fights and he also BEAT mercer, who was considered a top hw of the 90's era which is considered second only to the 70's in terms of quality fighters….so, to discount tyson’s blowout of holmes is blatant cherry-picking.


Next, we have razor Ruddock…granted ruddock’s resume after Tyson wasn’t that great, but BEFORE Tyson, Ruddock was considered to be one of the scariest fighters around. He damn near killed Michael dokes…he damn near killed bonecrusher…holyfield and the rest of the how div ducked him…If you watched boxing in the late 80’s, Ruddock was the guy who was supposed to beat the great mike Tyson and people made it seem like Tyson was ducking him…Tyson and Ruddock had two of the most violent fights I’ve ever seen…and Ruddock was never the same again…Ruddock was an incredible specimen and Tyson literally destroyed him, broke his bones and all.


But what makes Tyson really special was the fact that he was in jail for 4 years....and came back out and went about unifying the hw title that had split apart in three after he lost the title!...he did this by stopping Bruno and seldon…name me another fighter who could go to jail for FOUR years of his prime and come out and unify the hw title. The only one who came close was ali…he was in exile for 3 years. But not complete exile, because he was allowed to box exhibitions during his ban. Tyson was in jail the entire time…do you know what an absence of that long a period does to a fighter? ali wasn't the same after his 3-year exile...tyson came back from not fighting for FOUR years of his prime and UNIFIED the hw title. Yeah, he lost to holyfield, but lemme ask you this…if holyfield had spent FOUR YEARS in jail and wasn’t allowed to fight even ONCE during that period, what makes you think holy would be able to come back after 4 years and become hw champ again? Not gonna happen…if the tables were turned and Tyson had stayed active, growing and developing as a pro and holy was in jail for 4 years, came out and faced any of the champs, much less tyson, he’d get ktfo.


I read the same story as you did that appeared in SI many years ago about Tyson never beating a great fighter…the dude who wrote that article was entirely misinformed and just wrong. For example, who did larry holmes beat that was a great fighter? Who did joe louis beat that was a great fighter? The answer is NOBODY…ali fought great fighters and struggled with them, such as frazier and Norton…lewis never faced a great fighter in that fighter's prime…holyfield has a LOSING record against the fighters who could be considered standouts of his era... and he's tied with a lhw who moved up to hw and beat him for the title. But people wanna forget the great stuff Tyson did and judge him ONLY on the portion of his career that happened AFTER the 4 years in jail.


And don’t go popping off and stating the obvious about how this is a long dissertation-type post. I wrote it, so I know how long it is…but somebody has to be fair and set the record straight about tyson’s career and we all know it aint you.

I think Holyfields heart issues was a misdiagnosis if I'm correct. So he never had heart troubles if that's true.

But Tyson was gone by then.

Tyson in 88 beats Holyfields ass and that's just the way it is.

 

[svmVR2097]

when you say tyson didn't beat a "great" fighter in their prime, who do you mean? you talking about holyfield who went 1-2 against bowe, 0-2 against lewis and 1-1 against michael moorer?...is that the "great" fighter in his prime you're talking about? the same holy who struggled with vaughn bean and came thisclose to getting stopped by bert cooper?


This may come as a surprise to you, but at the time tyson faced holyfield for the first time, holy was considered over-the-hill, basically a fighter past his prime who had suffered health-issues with his heart and didn't really stand a chance against tyson. holyfield was supposed to be a stepping stone for a tyson-bowe fight. but holy upset the odds against tyson and for that win, is considered a great fighter.... however, if the fight had gone as expected, with tyson stopping holy in the mid-rounds, you and everybody would be saying tyson beat an old cruiserwt. so, tyson wouldn't have got any credit for that win over the fighter you now consider to be a “great”...the irony here is that holyfield's legacy as a great fighter is based largely on his wins over tyson...but if tyson was not a great fighter himself, why would those wins matter? i'm just saying, holy is not considered a great, great fighter for beating alex stewart, is he?


secondly, you’re probably referring to lennox lewis...the OTHER great fighter tyson lost to.... i have lennox #3 on my list, so i do consider him a great fighter, but let's be honest...this is lennox lews, the guy who got ko'd by hasim rahman for crying out loud...and oliver mccall, one of tony tucker's victims. lennox who fought life and death with mercer...and vitali. yeah, the tyson who fought lennox was way past his prime...


But let's look at the guys tyson DID beat. So, he wiped out the 3 champs at hw, tucker, bonecrusher and berbick. All three were deserving champs. tucker beat the man who eventually beat tyson...he also beat james broad, orlin norris and oliver mccall, the guy who ko’d your “great” lewis. Berbick was probably the best of the three...went 15 hard rounds with larry holmes, ko'd john tate and beat pinklon thomas who was, at the time, considered the best hw in the world. bonecrusher smith ko'd mike weaver, tim witherspoond and frank bruno...he also gave the great larry holmes a helluva scare and came close to stopping larry.


Well, none of those guys won even a round against tyson...tyson became the first man to unify the title since ali. that by itself makes him a great fighter...what other hw in modern times has repeated tyson’s feat? tyson restored order to the chaos and confusion of the hw div in the 80's by dominating HIS era.


Now, lets talk about spinks and ruddock and holmes.... spinks had beaten the great larry holmes twice....if spinks was nothing more than undersized lhw, how did he manage that? i have holmes #4 all time. clearly spinks was a legit hw champ..he may have been small for a hw, but that didn’t stop him from annihilating Gerry cooney and Stefan tangstad, two MUCH bigger, stronger hws. Spinks had significant advantages in height, reach and experience over tyson…tyson blew him out in 91 seconds.


Holmes came back from retirement to lose to Tyson, but the idea that holmes was an old, washed up fighter, is disproven by the fact he LATER gave holyfield one of holy’s toughest fights and he also BEAT mercer, who was considered a top hw of the 90's era which is considered second only to the 70's in terms of quality fighters….so, to discount tyson’s blowout of holmes is blatant cherry-picking.


Next, we have razor Ruddock…granted ruddock’s resume after Tyson wasn’t that great, but BEFORE Tyson, Ruddock was considered to be one of the scariest fighters around. He damn near killed Michael dokes…he damn near killed bonecrusher…holyfield and the rest of the how div ducked him…If you watched boxing in the late 80’s, Ruddock was the guy who was supposed to beat the great mike Tyson and people made it seem like Tyson was ducking him…Tyson and Ruddock had two of the most violent fights I’ve ever seen…and Ruddock was never the same again…Ruddock was an incredible specimen and Tyson literally destroyed him, broke his bones and all.


But what makes Tyson really special was the fact that he was in jail for 4 years....and came back out and went about unifying the hw title that had split apart in three after he lost the title!...he did this by stopping Bruno and seldon…name me another fighter who could go to jail for FOUR years of his prime and come out and unify the hw title. The only one who came close was ali…he was in exile for 3 years. But not complete exile, because he was allowed to box exhibitions during his ban. Tyson was in jail the entire time…do you know what an absence of that long a period does to a fighter? ali wasn't the same after his 3-year exile...tyson came back from not fighting for FOUR years of his prime and UNIFIED the hw title. Yeah, he lost to holyfield, but lemme ask you this…if holyfield had spent FOUR YEARS in jail and wasn’t allowed to fight even ONCE during that period, what makes you think holy would be able to come back after 4 years and become hw champ again? Not gonna happen…if the tables were turned and Tyson had stayed active, growing and developing as a pro and holy was in jail for 4 years, came out and faced any of the champs, much less tyson, he’d get ktfo.


I read the same story as you did that appeared in SI many years ago about Tyson never beating a great fighter…the dude who wrote that article was entirely misinformed and just wrong. For example, who did larry holmes beat that was a great fighter? Who did joe louis beat that was a great fighter? The answer is NOBODY…ali fought great fighters and struggled with them, such as frazier and Norton…lewis never faced a great fighter in that fighter's prime…holyfield has a LOSING record against the fighters who could be considered standouts of his era... and he's tied with a lhw who moved up to hw and beat him for the title. But people wanna forget the great stuff Tyson did and judge him ONLY on the portion of his career that happened AFTER the 4 years in jail.


And don’t go popping off and stating the obvious about how this is a long dissertation-type post. I wrote it, so I know how long it is…but somebody has to be fair and set the record straight about tyson’s career and we all know it aint you.

Well you started off by in the first sentence by misquoting me and then stating Holyfield was considered over the hill when I never questioned if the fighters who Tyson fought were in their primes, only that Tyson himself did not beat any great fighters in HIS prime, which was short.

Please tell me at what time did Holyfield duck Ruddock? He never did unless you count AFTER the Tyson fights where Ruddock was coming off back to back losses and Holyfield didn't want to face him because A)he was coming off those 2 losses and B) was managed by Don King. That's not a duck, of all people, Holyfield didn't duck anyone.

Also, to your last point, Ken Norton was maybe number 1 in the world(as Ali just lost to Leon Spinks) when Holmes fought him. (The same Norton you'd use to prove your Ali point). And you can't sugar coat the fact Holmes was 38, coming off that long layoff and back to back losses when he lost to Tyson.

I also like you mention that Lewis went life and death with Vitali, you realize Vitali is in the boxing hall of fame right? Also you mention him getting KO'd twice, no mention of him avenging those losses with KO wins, something Tyson never did to any of his losses.

 

[TownBiz]

Well you started off by in the first sentence by misquoting me and then stating Holyfield was considered over the hill when I never questioned if the fighters who Tyson fought were in their primes, only that Tyson himself did not beat any great fighters in HIS prime, which was short.

Please tell me at what time did Holyfield duck Ruddock? He never did unless you count AFTER the Tyson fights where Ruddock was coming off back to back losses and Holyfield didn't want to face him because A)he was coming off those 2 losses and B) was managed by Don King. That's not a duck, of all people, Holyfield didn't duck anyone.

Also, to your last point, Ken Norton was maybe number 1 in the world(as Ali just lost to Leon Spinks) when Holmes fought him. (The same Norton you'd use to prove your Ali point). And you can't sugar coat the fact Holmes was 38, coming off that long layoff and back to back losses when he lost to Tyson.

I also like you mention that Lewis went life and death with Vitali, you realize Vitali is in the boxing hall of fame right? Also you mention him getting KO'd twice, no mention of him avenging those losses with KO wins, something Tyson never did to any of his losses.

sounds to me like you have some issues with tyson himself... so, please explain to me why it's an important point that tyson didn't avenge his losses?...did holmes ever beat spinks? no...does that make larry less great? no... tyson wanted to fight a rematch with buster, but buster chose to fight evander instead...anyway that whole argument against tyson's greatness because he didn't avenge his losses that mostly occurred after his 4 year absence just sounds like you're LOOKING for stuff to hold against him.

yeah, tyson had a "short" prime...so what? how long was muhammad ali's prime? ali won the title in 1964 and went into exile in 1967...how is that so different from tyson? when ali came back he was no longer in his prime....so, ali's prime and tyson's prime are nearly the same except tyson had it worse. do you question ali's greatness too?

not only did holy duck ruddock, but bowe did as well....google it for yourself...do your own research. norton was a past prime 35 years old against holmes and still gave holmes the battle of his life

as far as vitali is concerned, i'm not even gonna get into that nonsense...vitali lost to chris byrd for chrissakes...yeah, you're gonna say he retired in the byrd fight due to an injury...but if i say tyson was jailed for 4 years from boxing THAT'S just an excuse....i hear ya, bro.