Where does Prime Wanderlei rank in terms of all time greats?

At 205, I have Wand in the top 5
Jones
Shogun
Rampage
Wand
Chuck

Overall Goats, top ten
1)Jones
2)Fedor/Anderson
3)GSP
4)Aldo
5)Hendo
6)Big Nog
7)Wand
8)Shogun
9)Rampage
10)Chuck
 
JKS said:
In the goat talk??? I have Wanderlei in the top 10 of all time. We can say that GSP, Fedor, Anderson take the top 3. Then you got 7 spots to fill, I see Wand in there somewhere.
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He might be a fringe top 10 all time but it's hard to say. There are the no brainers like Fedor, Anderson, GSP and IMO Aldo and Jones. Then you've got guys like Hendo and Couture, who are multiple time champions in different weight classes and a longtime dominant champ and brief p4p king like Matt Hughes. Then you have Shogun, who while never a longtime belt holder in Pride, beat better competition and won gold in the states. Rampage can also be debatably ranked higher seeing as how he avenged his losses to Wand, has beaten better competition overall, won UFC gold and has remained a viable competitor for a much longer period of time. Then there's Chuck, with whom he's likely neck and neck, although Chuck did beat him when they fought. From there, we've got BJ Penn who, while maddeningly inconsistent, did win belts in two weight classes and had a dominant title run.


Wand was a long reigning champ and quite possibly the most entertaining fighter ever, but he also feasted on a lot of cans and couldn't translate his success stateside, the reasons for which being a topic of great speculation throughout the years. If honestly stick him just outside the top 10 ahead of Big Nog and Rich Franklin despite his having lost twice to the latter.
 
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manu1433 said:
Chuck fought in UFC

he didn't fight in Pride.....like I said above, he got rekt in Pride

Rampge's wins

Chuck X2

Igor

Randleman

Wand

Shogun

Lindland

Machida

Hendo
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Rampage beat Shogun?

Wanderlei was well past his best by the time of the 3rd fight, never beat an elite opponent again after the Crocop KO.

Rampage has benefited a lot from questionable decisions as well, Lyoto was clearly wrong and Lindland/Ninja were both very questionable as well. I don't consider those kinds of wins to have as much merit as clearly getting the best of someone.

Not to bash Rampage as I think he is pretty close to Chuck and I wouldn't argue a great deal with him being over him but very clearly over him as your claiming? sorry I don't see it.
 
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JKS said:
In the goat talk??? I have Wanderlei in the top 10 of all time. We can say that GSP, Fedor, Anderson take the top 3. Then you got 7 spots to fill, I see Wand in there somewhere.
Click to expand...

I agree. But the 4th absolutely NEEDS to be BJ. Penn. AND yes he fought at LHW too. Looked like he was actually HW night of that fight against Machida though.
 
moreorless87 said:
Rampage beat Shogun?

Wanderlei was well past his best by the time of the 3rd fight, never beat an elite opponent again after the Crocop KO.

Rampage has benefited a lot from questionable decisions as well, Lyoto was clearly wrong and Lindland/Ninja were both very questionable as well. I don't consider those kinds of wins to have as much merit as clearly getting the best of someone.

Chuck wins...

Randy x 2

Babalu x 2

Overeem

Mezger

Randleman

Vitor

Tito x 2

Post Prime Wanderlei
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lol @ criticizing a win over post prime Wand but not mentioning Randy was 42 when he lost to Chuck the first time

mezger definitely was past his prime when he lost to Chuck

Overeem wasn't that great in pride


Chuck also got rekt by Rampage head 2 head.....they had pretty comparable resumes with one guy fighting fighting in a better division and that same guy owned the other one twice head 2 head
 
Private Whatley said:
Wand was a long reigning champ and quite possibly the most entertaining fighter ever, but he also feasted on a lot of cans and couldn't translate his success stateside, the reasons for which being a topic of great speculation throughout the years. If honestly stick him just outside the top 10 ahead of Big Nog and Rich Franklin despite his having lost twice to the latter.
Click to expand...

wanderlei was already on the decline by the time he came to the ufc. had the wand that was in pride during his peak fought chuck in his prime, i would have bet everything on wanderlei.

i think wear-and-tear caught up with him. and getting ko'd by henderson in their second fight didn't help. my favorite fight of his is still his first fight with henderson. that wanderlei was above-and-beyond the competition. he also beat crocop in their first fight, in my opinion.
 
He is top 5 for me, or REAL close. There has never been a scarier fighter EVER! Pure aggression and violence! I never rooted for him in his PRIDE days, because I was a BIG Liddell fan back then and there was always the argument of who was the best. However, I NEVER missed his fights, and his fights against guys like Cro cop, Hunt, Sakuraba, Hendo, Liddell are all time classics! PLUS, he entered the PRIDE open weight tourney, the only non heavy weight with the guts to do that! Top 5 for for sure.
 
Forever Young said:
3/4 for middleweights.

Anderson
Tanner
Wand/Franklin (I say Wand)

P4P? Hard not to have him somewhere in or near the top ten, depending on the criteria used.
Click to expand...

Lol at Evan tanner

Lol at not having weidman
 
mastodon06 said:
At 205, I have Wand in the top 5
Jones
Shogun
Rampage
Wand
Chuck

Overall Goats, top ten
1)Jones
2)Fedor/Anderson
3)GSP
4)Aldo
5)Hendo
6)Big Nog
7)Wand
8)Shogun
9)Rampage
10)Chuck
Click to expand...

Chuck > wanderlei
 
all pride fighters were juiced to the gills. they were basically like bane with tubes sticking out their bodies. it's a farce. look how many guys get caught with somewhat stringet testing. pride didn't test at all.
 
in a classic "hindsite is 20/20" way, one must focus only on his career between Tito and Hendo (II). that's about 20 fights in about 6 years. he lost to Arona, had a few "Pride draws" (e.g. CroCop I), and beat a lot of guys a lot smaller. he also beat Arona, Hendo (I), and in the most classic of classic battles, Rampage twice.

ya, he's still a top 3 205er in my book.
 
wins in 3 weight classes
Pride 205 champ for about half a decade
holds records for most wins, knockouts, title defenses, and longest winning streak in Pride history

yeah I'd say top 10 for sure
 
I would have him top 5 LHW.
 
IIIIIIII said:
wanderlei was already on the decline by the time he came to the ufc. had the wand that was in pride during his peak fought chuck in his prime, i would have bet everything on wanderlei.

i think wear-and-tear caught up with him. and getting ko'd by henderson in their second fight didn't help. my favorite fight of his is still his first fight with henderson. that wanderlei was above-and-beyond the competition. he also beat crocop in their first fight, in my opinion.
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Yea, but Chuck was also well past his prime. He was coming off two straight losses to Rampage and Jardine. Following the Wand fight, Chuck was brutally starched by Rashad, Shogun and Franklin. If anything, Chuck was probably further removed from his prime.

To be fair, it's not like Wand is completely chopped liver. He did manage to beat Bisping, Cung Le and Stann. Not for nothing, but those wins would easily land someone in the MW rankings.
 
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