Where do you rank Lennox Lewis among all time HWs?

monsieur_jj said:
stupid stupid stupid comparison, thats wrestling then randy beat mark in mma, this is boxing then boxing.
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just trying to give a current analogy.

How about Spinks/Ali or Bowe/ Holyfield or Louis/Schmelling. Those were all professional fights that were avenged relatively quickly. Bowe had years to get better. As I said in my 1st post and in the post above this, I acknowledge that Bowe dodged Lewis but he is the only really good fighter he could have fought in his prime and it didn't happen. That is my argument against putting him in the top 5.
 
Anung Un Rama said:
I do, I said that in my first post but to say his loss in the Olympics would translate to a professional defeat, what 7 years later? is unsound.
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I meant Bowe, not you.

Lewis is absolutely a top 5 HW ever.

The loss to Rahman was ridiculous. I think it automatically drops him one spot because he fought like a retard in that fight and deserved it. The McCall fight could just be a case of someone getting caught and McCall isn't really a BAD fighter, just not an especially good one.

Lewis beat every fighter he ever fought, holds a win over our current best (or second best) HW in the world and retired a champion. The argument that Tyson mught have beaten him if they fought 10 years earlier does nothing to disqualify Lewis' achievments.
 
Seano said:
I meant Bowe, not you.

Lewis is absolutely a top 5 HW ever.

The loss to Rahman was ridiculous. I think it automatically drops him one spot because he fought like a retard in that fight and deserved it. The McCall fight could just be a case of someone getting caught and McCall isn't really a BAD fighter, just not an especially good one.

Lewis beat every fighter he ever fought, holds a win over our current best (or second best) HW in the world and retired a champion. The argument that Tyson mught have beaten him if they fought 10 years earlier does nothing to disqualify Lewis' achievments.
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I agree! Lewis fought the best available for him! he never ducked anybody besided chris byrd because he knows its an easy fight, he went for the bigger challenge. He always cared for his legacy. LENNOX LEWIS IS THE BEST IF YOU CONTEST HE WILL PUT YOU TO REST
 
Anung Un Rama said:
just trying to give a current analogy.

How about Spinks/Ali or Bowe/ Holyfield or Louis/Schmelling. Those were all professional fights that were avenged relatively quickly. Bowe had years to get better. As I said in my 1st post and in the post above this, I acknowledge that Bowe dodged Lewis but he is the only really good fighter he could have fought in his prime and it didn't happen. That is my argument against putting him in the top 5.
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Wrong analogy, look at ssm and delahoya ssm beat delahoya everytime
 
Lewis had a boring, plodding style. When ranking two closely matched fighters, one has to rank the one with the more exciting style higher. Lewis beat the best of his era, but his era was probably the worst in terms of skilled fighters.

Take Ali for instance, he had a lot of close matches and lost a few. That is because there was great competition.

Now look at Lewis, where is the competition? Lewis lost too, but these weren't close competitive matches. Instead Lewis came in totally unprepared and got beatdown.

I ask this, what are the defining fights of Lewis career? Rahman? Rahman came in already beat. McCall? McCall came in with drug withdrawal problems and refused to fight back. Lewis couldn't even knock McCall down, or put him out of his misery. Holyfield? A natural cruiserweight, one of the smaller heavies of all time.
 

I made this vid some months ago, and I think it sums up what I would say.
Lennox lewis; 1#.
 
Anung Un Rama said:
I don't remember that but it was still Iron-Mike past his prime.

Come to think of it. Lewis fought Real Deal waaayyy after his prime, too.

What quality fighter did Lenox beat in his prime? Frank Bruno?
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Ray Mercer: Many people including me say Mercer won, but the record says Lewis.

Evander Holyfield: Fighting Lennox Lewis was Holyfield's Prime. What else did he do? Get beat up by Bowe? Head butt a past prime Tyson? Get clowned by James Toney?

Andrew Golota: Golota was coming off the Bowe fights which was the top of his game.

Tommy Morrison: Morrison was believed to has reached his prime for the Lewis fight.

Shannon Briggs: After he recovered from the Lewis beating Briggs turned out to be a good Heavyweight.

and the list goes on...
 
Personally sick of hearing this now damn near mythical PRIME MIKE TYSON would do to every single heavyweight. Look... Tyson was good. Damn good... But he belongs in the top 20 at best. Top 15 might be pushing it. Throughout his career, he still had problems with tall men who jabbed well, through in combination, and give him angles. Ali, Lewis, Foreman... All three of them would have murdered this PRIME MIKE TYSON. But I am not going to say he won't match well with some fighters. He would probably beat Joe Frazier 7 times out of 10 just because of the style and how Frazier starts slow.

And people kind of poo poo on Ken Norton too much. Yes, he doesn't have great punch resistance against really, really good punchers. But when he can take your punch, he would give you fucking hell. Ask Ali... Norton is pretty overwhelming when you can't put a hammer to his head. That is why Holmes struggled with him. Not because he's a subpar fighter. Get your head out of your ass. Norton is a pretty decent fighter.
 
What do ya'll think about this piece:
https://www.boxingscene.com/close-no-cigar-trouble-with-larry-lennox--5605

I think it's overall a good article. But I have trouble agreeing with the rankings... Larry 11th? Ok, the author explains why he ranks Larry and Lennox outside the top 10 ...what he doesn't do is explain who is ahead of them and why. That's what sort of ruins the entire article, because you can argue against most boxers he would have ahead of them, including his highly praised Gene Tunney and probably Joe Frazier. He should've just left the rankings out, but he couldn't because the punch line was "Close, bu no cigar".

I hope he doesn't have Sonny Liston ahead of them. Many people do, not realizing he barely had any title defenses.
 
Seano said:
I meant Bowe, not you.

Lewis is absolutely a top 5 HW ever.

The loss to Rahman was ridiculous. I think it automatically drops him one spot because he fought like a retard in that fight and deserved it. The McCall fight could just be a case of someone getting caught and McCall isn't really a BAD fighter, just not an especially good one.

Lewis beat every fighter he ever fought, holds a win over our current best (or second best) HW in the world and retired a champion. The argument that Tyson mught have beaten him if they fought 10 years earlier does nothing to disqualify Lewis' achievments.
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Ali
Louis
Johnson
Holmes/Lewis
Marciano

After the above it all gets messy for me.

Foreman
Frazier
Holyfield
Dempsey
Tyson
Liston
Wlad
Tunney
Jeffries
Vitali (better than wlad, but not greater achievement wise)
John L sullivan
Riddick Bowe
Bob Fitzsimmons (has to get in considering the bodyweight)

Likely left out names, but that's a rough list and no doubt it will get hammered lol
 
Dana's Moonface said:
Ali
Louis
Johnson
Holmes/Lewis
Marciano


Likely left out names, but that's a rough list and no doubt it will get hammered lol
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I tend to believe Jack Johnson was in a lot of fixed fights, I don't rate him.
 
Ok I did a little research for all weight classes:
https://www.checkhookboxing.com/index.php?threads/mike-caseys-weight-by-weight-rankings.17991/

So he really does have Sonny Liston ahead of Holmes, LOL.

He has Dempsey as the best heavyweight of all time. Let me address this with my opinion that Mike Tyson was a bigger, stronger, faster, more advanced version of Dempsey. I already figured that he was hanging on Dempseys nuts too much while reading the article...for instance I don't agree what he says about Dempsey vs. Holmes, because I think that Dempsey gets smacked with an uppercut from hell by Holmes anytime he ducks frontally.
Also he critizized Larry's footspeed too much, because despite the speed his legs in were one of his strengths, and when he lost them he visibly deteriorated. Larry was a darn good mover (watch his fight vs Leon Spinks), and that's a rare attribute for a heavyweight throughout history.

I already figured he would put Jack Johnson, Jim Jeffries and Sam Langford so high, because dat most superhuman power is simply too strong. But Marciano and Foreman ahead of Holmes and Lewis? I don't see how he can justify that, which is the big flaw in his article.
 
He was losing to Bruno before the KO and arguably lost to Mercer, had a disputed decision. Had Ko slip ups to Mcall and Rahman.

Who knows whether Rooney Tyson would have beaten him and history gone done down a different path. There is every evidence to suggest that he would.
 
spacetime said:
He was losing to Bruno before the KO and arguably lost to Mercer, had a disputed decision. Had Ko slip ups to Mcall and Rahman.

Who knows whether Rooney Tyson would have beaten him and history gone done down a different path. There is every evidence to suggest that he would.
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Joe Louis was losing to Billy Conn before the KO.

Lennox beat Bruno by KO and Mercer by decision after all.

Manny Steward studied Lennox, saw a flaw and drilled McCall to capitalize on it... 100 years ago they didn't have the advantage of footage.

The story is that Ali actually got KO'd by Henry Cooper, got gift decisions against Jimmy Young and Norton... Marciano arguably got a gift decision against LaStarza.

Lennox had a pretty good career and the meanest resume of his era. No r
reason to act as if any other heavyweight had a perfect career. This is boxing.
 
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He's a lock somewhere between the n°3 and n°5 spots.
 
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