When Pride conquered UFC, and the end of the first MMA Golden Age

[Holyherb420]

Actually, most research on the credibility of ''witnesses'' concludes that they are often unreliable.

Really? Please tell me where and how those conclusions came about?

It seems almost like you guys could swear you were there and part of the company. That's the only way you could know that the fighters are lying. It's like if all your friends tell you your gf was cheating, even one of the guys comes foreword and says he did her, and you still go "nuh uh!" At this point I can't help but feel sorry for you guys.

 

[kenetics]

Pride is, and always will be the golden age of mma period!

 

[Cptn1NSAN0]

You just need to use your imagination.

Cerrone = new age Cro Cop
Pettis = flashy new Anderson
Lawler = Chuck Liddell-style-sprawl-n-brawl champ
Romero = new Couture, but with flying knees
Rumble = new Old Rampage
Vitor = new Vitor
who the f*** doesn't love Machida
Edgar = new GSP in a way
Askren = new Hughes

We've got a pretty interesting crop of MMA fighters to watch these days.

 

[FatMoiMoi]

Really? Please tell me where and how those conclusions came about?

It seems almost like you guys could swear you were there and part of the company. That's the only way you could know that the fighters are lying. It's like if all your friends tell you your gf was cheating, even one of the guys comes foreword and says he did her, and you still go "nuh uh!" At this point I can't help but feel sorry for you guys.

http://scholar.google.co.jp/scholar...a=X&ei=EujBVMWtJcaB8QXOnYHAAg&ved=0CBwQgQMwAA
http://scholar.google.co.jp/scholar?q=are+eyewitnesses+reliable&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_vis=1
http://scholar.google.co.jp/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_vis=1&q=credibility+of+eyewitness

Read up on it yourself. The evidence is out there. I wasn't specifically saying that all Pride fighters who have come out and talked about the behind-the-scenes happenings of Pride are wrong, I was taking issue with your statement that ''if multiple eye-witnesses are saying something then it is probably true'' because it is simply not the case.

 

[moreorless87]

Even back then there was always a group who insisted that UFC was more entertaining, more credible as a sports org etc even as they sometimes conceded that Pride had better fighters. You're right that the golden age is still continuing in some way when UFC plucked the low hanging fruit by scooping or buying up old Pride talent.

The UFC's growth post TUF thus far for me has really been based mostly on being able to buy out rival orgs and strip them of talent plus more recently of being able to introduce pent up talent in lower weightclasses.

That's the easy route to signing talent as you make sure your only paying good money to fighters that are proven to be both draws and successful. The UFC have not IMHO done the grass roots investment they should have been doing, yes you'll get some talent rising naturally but outside of US wrestlers with no earning potential in their sport its never going to be massive.

Other orgs have been much more willing to pay high level guys from other sports to transition to MMA or to come in early in the careers of promising up and comers. Meanwhile the UFC carry on pushing the myth that this new generation who only trained MMA are going to suddenly rise to the top as well as the idea that the reason for the rise of the US wrestlers is because they've moved beyond other talent bases, not because those other talent bases have dropped off.

Honestly I find it very worrying looking at the lack of really interesting new talent in MMA. TUF and undercards and more and more being filled with very mediocre US/Brazilian talent, especially the guys who you would consider "MMA trained" who come across as jack of all trades master of none. These guys are pushed as having the potential to rise up the ranks but I think both looking at their talent level and the sports history shows this is very unlikely to happen, rather they'll likely have a short spell in the UFC before being dropped and someone similar being signed instead.

 

[Bob Gray]

Pretty biased breakdown. It's safe to say that Fedor, Big Nog and Mirko were the best heavies, but really no one disputed that.

Sokoudjou was on a tear in Pride, then got booted out of the UFC. Shogun came in riding a train of hype and got choked out by a TUF'er. That hurt the Pride boys. It just did. He won a rematch and all, but that shit had to sting. That was sort of the nail in the coffin of Pride fighters being some sort of supermen.

You can go on all day long and pick a certain loss/win and angle the argument a particular way. At the end of the day, the only clear cut thing you can say is that Fedor and Big Nog were the absolute best heavies of their era, bar none. Pretty much everywhere else, some people won these match ups and lost others, and that would be pretty much the norm for every other weight division putside HW, where you had two people occupying the perch above everyone else in the division.

 

[Holyherb420]

http://scholar.google.co.jp/scholar...a=X&ei=EujBVMWtJcaB8QXOnYHAAg&ved=0CBwQgQMwAA
http://scholar.google.co.jp/scholar?q=are+eyewitnesses+reliable&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_vis=1
http://scholar.google.co.jp/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,5&as_vis=1&q=credibility+of+eyewitness

Read up on it yourself. The evidence is out there. I wasn't specifically saying that all Pride fighters who have come out and talked about the behind-the-scenes happenings of Pride are wrong, I was taking issue with your statement that ''if multiple eye-witnesses are saying something then it is probably true'' because it is simply not the case.

Lol we aren't talking about eyewitnesses to hit and runs, fights, muggings, etc. how does your mind play tricks on your memory when someone asks you to lose?
Your issue is way off base. Those reports you showed me have to do with witnesses to accidents. This is different.

 

[Vale_Tudo]

Pride>UFC