When Pride conquered UFC, and the end of the first MMA Golden Age

you're confusing ''proof'' with one man's personal opinion.

and also remember, i agree there have been fixed and shady fights in pride, just as in ufc, and every other sport organizations including the olympics.

you're only focusing on pride... i say, broaden the mind and bring it up to another level..

I'm focused it because your whole point of this post was that pride was superior. If we were talking about one of those other sports I'd probably focus on them.
 
I'm focused it because your whole point of this post was that pride was superior. If we were talking about one of those other sports I'd probably focus on them.

my point was that over all, pride legends beat ufc legends when fighting head-to-head.


the proof is there because the fights actually happened. check out the fightfinder section.

see? point, back up by proof.

also, in the OP, i've stated that the UFC conquered Pride financially... and that all these fighters in the end (aexcept Fedor, Arona, etc), became UFC fighters anyway

again, broaden the mind...
 
Stopped reading at "when Pride conquered the UFC"

They always had their best respective divisions. UFC owned 170-185 while pride owned 205, HW and 160.

OK I felt bad about not reading, skimmed the rest, super skewed account of what happened. When the UFC bought Pride I was one of those "Pride is better" guys and I pretty quickly got disappointed and felt like I was wrong. That's what it felt like if you were there. They came in, mostly lost, the guys who did well weren't who you expected, then for a brief second you had interim Nog and champ Rampage and champ Anderson (if he even counts as a Pride guy; the UFC guys were quick to point out he was definitely more of a cage rage guy, but Pride guys still claimed him) anyway, things felt OK but at no point did Pride just come in, take over, and prove what most of us thought: that they were just better fighters.

Actually the overall impression was that we'd heinously underrated the UFC guys.

Sylvia and Andrei were not the best guys in the UFC. The UFC had Cain, Lesnar, JDS and Carwin at that point and that's why everyone wanted Fedor in the UFC. Fedor/Pride fans were all stoked about the wins over former UFC champs from that era, but everyone knew the best HW division in UFC history was built by the "new breed" and people didn't know if Fedor could beat those guys.

BTW MMA is on a much higher level in almost every measurable way right now than it was then, so golden age my ass.
 
my point was that over all, pride legends beat ufc legends when fighting head-to-head.


the proof is there because the fights actually happened. check out the fightfinder section.

see? point, back up by proof.

also, in the OP, i've stated that the UFC conquered Pride financially... and that all these fighters in the end (aexcept Fedor, Arona, etc), became UFC fighters anyway

again, broaden the mind...

It just seemed like another pride was better thread. so I pointed out they fixed fights. You said nope. Then I said yup. That's the convo I'm talking about. Never touched your ufc fighters got owned by pride fighters.
 
Stopped reading at "when Pride conquered the UFC"

They always had their best respective divisions. UFC owned 170-185 while pride owned 205, HW and 160.

OK I felt bad about not reading, skimmed the rest, super skewed account of what happened. When the UFC bought Pride I was one of those "Pride is better" guys and I pretty quickly got disappointed and felt like I was wrong. That's what it felt like if you were there. They came in, mostly lost, the guys who did well weren't who you expected, then for a brief second you had interim Nog and champ Rampage and champ Anderson (if he even counts as a Pride guy; the UFC guys were quick to point out he was definitely more of a cage rage guy, but Pride guys still claimed him) anyway, things felt OK but at no point did Pride just come in, take over, and prove what most of us thought: that they were just better fighters.

Actually the overall impression was that we'd heinously underrated the UFC guys.

Sylvia and Andrei were not the best guys in the UFC. The UFC had Cain, Lesnar, JDS and Carwin at that point and that's why everyone wanted Fedor in the UFC. Fedor/Pride fans were all stoked about the wins over former UFC champs from that era, but everyone knew the best HW division in UFC history was built by the "new breed" and people didn't know if Fedor could beat those guys.

BTW MMA is on a much higher level in almost every measurable way right now than it was then, so golden age my ass.


if you did not ''skim'', then you would have realize that the conservation is in the context of ''legends of an era'' --- a closure to all those debates we had in the early-mid 2000s

and that of course, all these ''legends'' are getting knocked out left, right and center by the new generation of fighters
 
It just seemed like another pride was better thread. so I pointed out they fixed fights. You said nope. Then I said yup. That's the convo I'm talking about. Never touched your ufc fighters got owned by pride fighters.

i said nope, then i corrected it.

so now we agree that fixed and shady stuffs happen in every other sport organizations.

see? first time ever on sherdog when 2 people can talk things through and come to an understanding. lovely stuff.
 
It just seemed like another pride was better thread. so I pointed out they fixed fights. You said nope. Then I said yup. That's the convo I'm talking about. Never touched your ufc fighters got owned by pride fighters.

and pride may have had better fighters over all, (also better shows in my in my personal opinion), but in the end UFC outlasted and bought out Pride... so UFC won the rivalry in fact.

and now, Pride's ass belong to UFC...

see? no bias here. objectivity. clarity.
 
Realistically I think the results we saw broadly reflected the opinion more sensible people had back in the day that Pride had the deeper talent pool but that there were quality fighters in the UFC as well. Its only really in the years since that this viewpoint has been challenged by a great mass of fans indoctrinated with Zuffa hype that the UFC was always the centre of the sport.

As far as a "Golden Age" goes my feeling sadly is that I think were just coming to the end of it today. The UFC may have been in a dominant position for awhile BUT I think the talent base that we've been enjoying has been the legacy of the more diverse days of MMA. Many of the legends of the early 00's have dropped off of course but we still have a good deal of talent from that era at the top of the sport, however this talent too is aging and when in the not to distant future guys like Vitor, Machida, Werdum, JDS, Overeem, Jacare, Mousasi, Hunt, etc are gone I see little sign that they'll be replaced.
 
and pride may have had better fighters over all, (also better shows in my in my personal opinion), but in the end UFC outlasted and bought out Pride... so UFC won the rivalry in fact.

and now, Pride's ass belong to UFC...

see? no bias here. objectivity. clarity.

Haha that's the lovely thing about opinions you can argue them all day but in the end it's always your own personal thing.
 
From the dark age, MMA emerged in the early 2000s, thus began a golden age, which lasted until the late 2000s, when a new generation of fighters emerged and got the better of the legends of the golden age.

Some say it's a natural process. The old declined, the new eclipsed -- such is the natural order of the universe. Others say "EXPOSED!" "CANS!" such is the stupidity on internet forums.

During the golden age, two organizations rivaled against each other, Japan's Pride and the US's UFC. It was always a heated debate on sherdog back in those days, which organization had better fighters.

In the heavies, Pride boasted the like of Fedor, Big Nog and Crocop - the big three, the holy trinity. UFC had Tim Sylvia, Arlovski, Randy and Mir as their top dawgs.

In the light heavies, we saw Pride's Silva, Lil Nog, Shogun, Arona, Saku, Rampage and others. In the UFC, there was Tito, Chuck and again, Randy.

In the first head-to-head combat, Chuck went over to Japan and destroyed Mezner and Overreem, aiming at eventually beating Silva, proving once and for all UFC's superiority. But alas, it wasn't meant to be as he was ravaged by Rampage.

When UFC bought Pride, we finally get to see these legends head to head. It was sort of a moot point, because by then they were all "UFC fighters" anyway, but regardless, the debate of Pride versus UFC continued.

The result, we all know. Big Nog defeated Sylvia to become UFC interim champ. He also beat Randy. But Lost to Mir twice. Crocop meanwhile also lost to Mir. But then Mir lost to Overreem. Those were the battles confined to the UFC.

More intriguing was when Sylvia and Arlovski finally challenged the Last Emperor that is Fedor, outside of the UFC. They were both finished in the first round.

Put the above together, other than Mir's performance, it is safe to say, Pride heavies conquered UFC heavies.

In the LHW, Tito was beaten by Lil Nog. Chuck was knocked out by Rampage and Shogun, but he did gained an important consolation. In the head to head with Silva, UFC's #1 LHW versus Pride's #1 LHW, Chuck won a decision. Meanwhile, Forest beat Shogun, the the latter got his revenge.

Put the above all together, perhaps it's wise to say the Pride had the advantage.

Hence, head-to-head, fighers-to-fighters, pimps-to-pimps, playas-to-playas, legends-to-legends, Pride conquered the UFC in a fist-fight, but UFC conquered Pride in a financial battle.

But of course, since these legends have either retired or still pushing on unwisely as the careers wind down, to the typical sherdoggers, it's "Exoposed!" "Cans!"

Why? Because unlike Gary Goodridge, your average sherdoggers need not get punched in the head by the best fighers in the world for a decade to get brain damage.

They are naturally born stupid.

witness the TL, DR.

I loved Pride and the few but amazing tournament events, I think was a short dominance on MMA when the ufc champions used to leave for Pride letting the ufcs division on a stake, i can remember Bustamante, Coleman, Vitor, Royce and the 1st LW champ I forgot the name.

But respoding your post, you forgot Dan Herderson losing his two Pride belts for /ufc champs so it was at least a draw for me. And names like Wandy and CroCop shoud've destroy everybody but sadly dont, and the last sadness was not to see arona in ufc.
 
I loved Pride and the few but amazing tournament events, I think was a short dominance on MMA when the ufc champions used to leave for Pride letting the ufcs division on a stake, i can remember Bustamante, Coleman, Vitor, Royce and the 1st LW champ I forgot the name.

But respoding your post, you forgot Dan Herderson losing his two Pride belts for /ufc champs so it was at least a draw for me. And names like Wandy and CroCop shoud've destroy everybody but sadly dont, and the last sadness was not to see arona in ufc.

fair enough your brought up hendo.

he lost one belt to rampage, who's considered a pride fighter before he became ufc fighter.

he lost the other to anderson, who personally (thought others may argue) i would consider a ufc fighter above all else, since he was pretty much bouncing around before finding a home at the ufc.

but again, anderson wasn't considered elite of the era of the golden age context of early to mid 2000s, he peaked later...
 
MMA's golden age for me anyways was when Gsp and Anderson were at the binnacle of there games. But i did love the drama when pride was around, would wandy beat chuck and so on.
 
I think Ken just took a bad step, but there have been a few shady fights.

I know of one where the two guys were getting cut or just tired of the shit they put up with, so they went out as a snoozefest, 15 mins of circling... might as well be a fix

Not really a bad step, Ken was going for a leg lock.
 
Not really a bad step, Ken was going for a leg lock.

Only after the silliest move ever. Never seen a person before or since go for a leg in the manner he did... head straight up, just dropping his legs and folding them underneath himself. Almost zero forward momentum.
 
"Who has the better fighters" is pretty damn silly when comparing organisations with completely different rulesets, I*mean, even the criterias for winning are different. ... explain that away? Nah
 
Retarded argument and retarded debates. I don't miss those days.

UFC came first and was the top money in town, so fighters went there.

PRIDE came around and had more money, fighters started going there.

MMA grew in the US and the UFC started having more money, so the fighters went there.


All this PRIDE vs UFC, like these orgs fucking farmed these fighters or grew them from the dirt. Idiotic debates.

The fact is, the UFC was the best, Japan had a heyday, and then the UFC reclaimed it's top spot. These fighters only care about who pays them better and don't belong to any org. Using this "well in this certain time period PRIDE had better fighters, so PRIDE wins!" stipulation is reaching. Silliness.
 
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