When people say BJ Penn is the best LW of all time...

With the sport moving on and bj continuing to fight and tarnishhis legacy it's easy to dismiss him if you weren't a fan at that time.

But he was the best in his division at that time who fought everyone there was to face, plus jumped up to 170 to challenge himself.

Right now you can't say either of these things about either Khabib or Tony. A lot of the guys they have do far faced are the modern equivalent of Penn's opponents.
 
You have to consider the time period, dude. Of course the top LW's of today (Tony, Khabib) would likely beat a prime BJ... because the sport is evolving. A-duh. When BJ went on his LW run, he was about as close to unbeatable as a fighter could possibly get. Insanely, insanely talented. He had superb boxing, TDD & submissions. Not to mention he was at one point ranked as the top LW AND WW in the world.
 
I don't think BJ Penn is the LW GOAT
but I also don't think there is a clear pick for LW GOAT
tony isn't champ and khabib is a diva who only fights once a year against one legged real estate agents and blown up featherweights

also prime BJ Penn destroys khabib
 
It’s nostalgia…same with fedor fanboys thinking he is GOAT, clearly not but it’s the nostalgia
 
Beebop said:
Zero takedown ability? Fuckin Couture even said he couldn't take him down in training. He was like a contortionist. He got taken down when he was tired from fighting bigger guys
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do you know the difference between takedowns and takedown defense?
 
Mr Fahrenheit said:
You also cannot evaluate BJ without thinking about it like this:

The UFC didn’t introduce the lightweight belt until June of 2007.
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pulver-belt.jpg

UFC lightweight champion 2/23/01 - 3/23/02 (stripped over a contract dispute)

upload_2019-12-10_18-8-57.jpeg
th

4 man tournament vacant lightweight belt. Penn/Uno final ends in a draw. Penn signs with K-1, lw division scrapped.

th

UFC lightweight champion 10/14/06 - 12/8/07

Beyond the factual error, great post. Do guys like Khabib and Tony beat BJ at his best? Probably. If Khabib or Tony leave for another promotion is Dana going to shutter the whole lightweight division like he did when BJ Penn left? Probably, not.
 
TheChosenOne said:
is that due to pure nostalgia and love they have for the prodigy?

Looking at his LW murderers row wins:

Jens Pulver
Joe Stevenson
Sean Shirk
Kenny Florian
Diego Sanchez

GSP voice 'I am not impressed'.

Tony and Khabib's LW resume shits all over Penn's and they both would fuck Penn up in his prime also. These idiots like Jimmy Smith getting high off nostalgia need a good schooling.
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I think you are just too much of a dumbass to think properly.
First of all, BJ Penn was the consensus LW GOAT and that was way before Tony or Khabib did anything in this sport.

Second, if Khabib ever fought Prime BJ Penn, they would be submitted in the first round. Style makes fights, and the second Khabib would take BJ down, he would be submitted.
As for Tony, BJ would toy with him both standing and on the ground.

third: Let us remember that BJ fought when MMA was at its infancy, and training evolved by leaps and bounds since. if both fighters had the same training, there's absolutely no chance a guy who stoood and traded with Machida would lose to two guys like Tony or Khabib.

I do consider Khabib to be above BJ, but not by much. That's because he just got the belt and only now he is consistently fighting top ranked fighters.

But any retard who start their argument using the nostalgia card without and thought behind is is just an ignorant dumbass who is clueless and proud of it.
 
Shaddows said:
I think you are just too much of a dumbass to think properly.
First of all, BJ Penn was the consensus LW GOAT and that was way before Tony or Khabib did anything in this sport.

Second, if Khabib ever fought Prime BJ Penn, they would be submitted in the first round. Style makes fights, and the second Khabib would take BJ down, he would be submitted.
As for Tony, BJ would toy with him both standing and on the ground.
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I don't completely agree with this, in 32 fights he only has 6 submission wins. Not saying it isn't possible, or that he wasn't quite good on the ground, but let's not go too overboard here as well.
 
Huligani said:
Yes it's nostalgia. Tony's record is 10x better as is Khabib's.
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65% of Tony's record is cans and washed up guys.

You guys are seriously suffering from recency bias.
 
Florian and Sherk were legit badasses. The Gomi win was huge, too. And he beat Matt Hughes at 170. The guy was fucking awesome.

But not, he's not the best lightweight ever. Not any longer.
 
Yes and you get tons of shit if you say otherwise here, dosnt matter the fights that he lost also because the excuse will allways be "he was out of his prime" motivated bj penn is the legend who nobody wants to question
 
SeattleFightFan said:
See post #3. I was jokingly responding to a joking post. You’re the only one who took any of that seriously.

You mad, boomer?

But if you have anything to add or discuss about the other 99% of my post (everything except the last few words), I’d be happy to have a back and forth with you about BJ Penn. Cheers.
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I was referring to your words: 'am not a boomer, although pretty close' just thought to myself that's how I probly look talking to my daughter's friends :)
re: your words - I concur with pretty much everything you said
 
He used to be the goat lw. But he was surpassed by the next generation of lw fighters. It didn't help that he kept losing for so long.
 
I mean, when Penn was champ, Gomi was the only one who could arguably challenge his claim to the title of LW GOAT. Penn was very, very good once upon a time.

The way he closed his career ruined him in the eyes of noob posters, like yourself TS. And he did have the biggest fall from grace I think I've ever seen for a former, defending champ.

Believe it or not, winning the title means something. Penn held the belt and defended it. I have a hard time ranking a non-unified champ like Tony over Penn. I'd say Khabib has surpassed him at this point, though.
 
Bushido Kai said:
Can't tell is this is a white belt troll post or if you're actually serious. If you're serious, please delete your account now and forget this forum exists.
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It's not that ridiculous to say. If Lando fucking Vannata could have Tony in a world of trouble, it's not hard to believe a prime Penn could too. He was a fantastic counter puncher, and getting countered proves to be one of Ferguson's biggest weaknesses. Almost everytime we've seen Ferguson rocked in the UFC, it's due to counter punchers.

Prime Penn catches too much shit now of days.
 
boladiQup said:
i don't see BJ as the LW GOAT anymore, Khabib has surpassed him as far as his LW legacy, but prime Penn would still beat his ass all over the ring.
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Im not even a big Penn fan but in his prime, he would have given Khabib a hell of a fight. Not saying he would definitely win because only Sith’s deal in absolutes but, he sure as shit would have made it competitive.
 
Too many people suffer from recency bias. BJ was the best during his era and it's stupid to compare different eras. He was one of the pioneers of the sport, especially the lower weight classes. He fought and beat all the top guys during that time. But, I will say the he has probably has done more than any fighter that was once great to tarnish his own legacy.
 
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