When people say BJ Penn is the best LW of all time...

[gono btw]

you're certainly entitled to your opinion. BJ had zero take down ability, his bjj was very good for that era, but mediocre in todays standards. always had poor cardio. and had very limited attacks (boxing only). his skill set is pale in comparison to today's ufc fighters. he wouldn't have a hope in hell.

Ya seem to really know what you´re talkin´about, mate...

 

[eternaldarkness]

watch him break din thomas's jaw.

 

[Nate banged my mom]

Triggered boomer

30 year old boomer you got me

 

[chinarice]

GSP wasn't impressed either in his first fight with Penn. You would have to watch the fights and not just look at his record to see what kind of fighter Penn was before he went on his losing streak recently. But I see that you're new.

Tony and Khabib would have a hell of a time against Matt Hughes / GSP... but they ain't no Gleison Tibau though.

All of that is from an illegal eye poke and one punch that grazed GSP's nose but you're acting like he kicked GSP's ass, which never happened.

That said, I do believe BJ Penn is criminally underrated on Sherdog for the most part because he fucked his career up bad with his choices of fighting and yes men he always had with him.

 

[gono btw]

All of that is from an illegal eye poke .

That´s a myth.

vs BJ 1: was not an extended finger, was the result of a left hook, probably a knuckle or the thumb grazing No Rush´s eye.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

is that due to pure nostalgia and love they have for the prodigy?

Looking at his LW murderers row wins:

Jens Pulver
Joe Stevenson
Sean Shirk
Kenny Florian
Diego Sanchez

GSP voice 'I am not impressed'.

Tony and Khabib's LW resume shits all over Penn's and they both would fuck Penn up in his prime also. These idiots like Jimmy Smith getting high off nostalgia need a good schooling.

Penn gets a lot of respect for his peak because it was fucking awesome.

I think Khabib and Tony have passed him too, but it’s based on longevity more than pure dominance. Those five guys you mentioned were just as hopeless against BJ as Iaquinta, McGregor and Poirier were against Khabib, and the last three in particular were very good fighters.

It’s pure recency bias not to recognize that. Florian mopped up the entire second tier at lightweight before and after his title shot (Guida, Huerta, Stevenson, Lauzon, Gomi, etc.). Sherk’s career record is 36-4, those losses are all to highly decorated UFC champions (Hughes, St. Pierre, Penn, Edgar), and he has wins over guys like Nick Diaz, Florian, Tyson Griffin, Hermes Franca, Dunham and Karo. Even Joe Stevenson has wins like Nate Diaz, Tibau, Spencer Fisher and Yves Edwards on his resume. Diego even recent fans should know.

You also cannot evaluate BJ without thinking about it like this:

The UFC didn’t introduce the lightweight belt until June of 2007. BJ’s first Hughes fight was at the beginning of 2004 (he’d just beaten Gomi too—who then went on a ten fight winning streak with nine stoppages—so BJ arguably stopped the best welterweight and lightweight on the planet in a three month span). Imagine if instead the UFC had had a lightweight division that entire time, with guys like Gomi, Aoki, Uno, Kawajiri, Sakurai, Hellboy Hansen, Bang Ludwig, JZ Cavalcante, Eddie Alvarez and Gilbert Melendez, and BJ had stayed in one place like every modern fighter does instead of having a super competitive round robin with Hughes and St. Pierre and fighting Lyoto Machida.

I’m not going to suggest that BJ would have gone on a 12-fight winning streak like Khabib and Tony are on. He’s BJ, he would’ve come in fat and blown a couple. But he would’ve piled up a TON of wins. You can’t give him bonus points for what might have been, but it puts what he did do in a necessary context.

I fully agree that BJ isn’t the lightweight GOAT, but only because (a) certain fighters since him have been so impressive; and (b) the state of 155 at BJ’s prime simply wasn’t conducive establishing the kind of legacy that could rival Tony and Khabib.

 

[DirtyBadger]

Obligatory

BFD, there's no shame in getting knocked out by Andy Ruiz. BJ either underestimated him or was hypnotized by the jiggling of his tits, just like Anthony Joshua did in their first fight.

 

[BEER]

Man, people are always really dumb to context.

Lightweights today are way better than they were ten years ago. Era matters.

I don't think BJ is the goat at this point because he never stuck around the division long enough (although not his fault entirely) to really build a resume. But people saying his competition wasn't impressive clearly have no sense of history.

 

[Beebop]

Fuckin idiot. He was the best. First to move up weight class and do well. Chuck lost to Tito does that mean he isn't one of the best as well? Dumbass

 

[Beebop]

Obligatory

Ya like Penn was fighting back. His hands were down and had no intentions of fighting. I would like to see Penn square up with this fst piece of shit

 

[McDego]

GSP wasn't impressed either in his first fight with Penn. You would have to watch the fights and not just look at his record to see what kind of fighter Penn was before he went on his losing streak recently. But I see that you're new.

Tony and Khabib would have a hell of a time against Matt Hughes / GSP... but they ain't no Gleison Tibau though.

BJ was robbed of this fight.

I think of all the greats who started losing towards the end of their careers, BJ probably had the biggest fall from grace.

The way he handled Hughes in their first fight was historical, and the new kids don't understand.

 

[Beebop]

Royce was the best during UFC 1-5, BJ Penn would have destroyed Royce. Khabib/Tony, most of the top LW's would destroy prime Penn.

The 2030 UFC LW champ would destroy any version of Khabib or Tony. And the sport moves on as such..

Exactly

 

[Blayt7hh]

i don't see BJ as the LW GOAT anymore, Khabib has surpassed him as far as his LW legacy, but prime Penn would still beat his ass all over the ring.

I’d pick Khabib over him. Otherwise this is what most people think. The only “nostalgia” here is TS remembering people’s opinions before the changes. The large majority of poster know say Khabib and Tony have surpassed him. I agree, and when they finally fight the new light weight goat will be crowned that night

 

[Beebop]

you're certainly entitled to your opinion. BJ had zero take down ability, his bjj was very good for that era, but mediocre in todays standards. always had poor cardio. and had very limited attacks (boxing only). his skill set is pale in comparison to today's ufc fighters. he wouldn't have a hope in hell.

Zero takedown ability? Fuckin Couture even said he couldn't take him down in training. He was like a contortionist. He got taken down when he was tired from fighting bigger guys

 

[Fioretti]

Zero takedown ability? Fuckin Couture even said he couldn't take him down in training. He was like a contortionist. He got taken down when he was tired from fighting bigger guys

He said ability, not defense.

 

[Intellidamus]

Boomers clinging into past as they always do. Nothing special.

Ok newborn. Although I agree Penn wasn’t better.

 

[Beebop]

you're very correct. this is my point. he faired very well 10+ years ago when the talent pool wasn't very deep. Pettis and barboza would kick a "prime bf's" legs to pieces. bj would need to be in boxing range in order to potentially have any shot, because his skill set was (whether you like it or not) very limited and he would not be competitive in today's climate.

No not a chance. He looses now so people think everyone would beat him lol

 

[Beebop]

He said ability, not defense.

He didn't have to. He beat the shit out of people on the feet

 

[amok attitude]

Prime BJ loses to Khabib but beats Tony

Actually prime bj vs khabib would be very interesting.
The best TDD against the best grappler, great flexibility for bj, very good hands etc...it would have been cool to see this

 

[Bjjpitbull8]

Only compete noobs that base their opinion off of wiki records don’t respect him.

I have trouble seeing him beat Khabib and Tony, but he would have a very good chance. He was a monster.

If you knew anything, you’d realize Bj beat the snot out of Georges in their first fight.