When Official UFO disclosure happens...

[Aegon Spengler]

they don't tell presidents this stuff.

Who is they and how could they not?

 

[terrapin]

Who is they and how could they not?

presidents are not briefed on every single top secret program that the military and other groups are involved in. it is commonly thought that lots of things are on a need to know basis for the president.

it is entirely possible that our government could know about UFO's (im not saying they do) and not brief the president unless it because relevant. or at least that's what i have heard.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

presidents are not briefed on every single top secret program that the military and other groups are involved in. it is commonly thought that lots of things are on a need to know basis for the president.

it is entirely possible that our government could know about UFO's (im not saying they do) and not brief the president unless it because relevant. or at least that's what i have heard.

Sure, they could avoid briefing him. But there is nobody in the U.S. government who has the authority to withhold a national security secret from the President. If he asks or pursues information on aliens it’s illegal to lie to him or keep anything from him.

He knows if he wants to know; or else the entire government is a sham.

In any case, the idea that aliens are visiting the Earth has more in common with superstition than anything else. But it would be neat if it were true.

Although everything in space is constantly moving. Planets are like grains of sand in a tornado. A star chart with the current locations for every planet in the galaxy would be something to behold.

 

[terrapin]

Sure, they could avoid briefing him. But there is nobody in the U.S. government who has the authority to withhold a national security secret from the President. If he asks or pursues information on aliens it’s illegal to lie to him or keep anything from him.

He knows if he wants to know; or else the entire government is a sham.

In any case, the idea that aliens are visiting the Earth has more in common with superstition than anything else. But it would be neat if it were true.

Although everything in space is constantly moving. Planets are like grains of sand in a tornado. A star chart with the current locations for every planet in the galaxy would be something to behold.

agreed on if the president asks but you would have to know about something specific in order to ask about it. i would probably have full time staff as president thinking of weird shit to ask about....



i dont see how anyone can discount millions of sightings as superstition many of them by highly credible people. its my main case on this topic. i dont see how we have lost that much faith in people in that high of numbers. it just makes no sense to me at all and i think its even really sad.


on the other hand i have a different perspective having had a direct sighting if a UFO myself. its just a matter of experience for me and i think that gives me a unique perspective on the whole topic.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

agreed on if the president asks but you would have to know about something specific in order to ask about it. i would probably have full time staff as president thinking of weird shit to ask about....



i dont see how anyone can discount millions of sightings as superstition many of them by highly credible people. its my main case on this topic. i dont see how we have lost that much faith in people in that high of numbers. it just makes no sense to me at all and i think its even really sad.


on the other hand i have a different perspective having had a direct sighting if a UFO myself. its just a matter of experience for me and i think that gives me a unique perspective on the whole topic.

Many more millions than have had UFO sightings claim to be in some kind of communion with god or gods. Usually they presume that the will of this imaginary being is being revealed through a magic book.

The majority of humans believe in fairytale nonsense. I see no reason to believe that “sightings” are evidence of anything cosmic, under these circumstances.

 

[terrapin]

Many more millions than have had UFO sightings claim to be in some kind of communion with god or gods. Usually they presume that the will of this imaginary being is being revealed through a magic book.

The majority of humans believe in fairytale nonsense. I see no reason to believe that “sightings” are evidence of anything cosmic, under these circumstances.

you cant explain away a mystery by inadequately debunking another mystery. you have basically said nothing and made no point either. millions of people see UFO's. they see them because the exist.

personally i think the majority of people who think they are in touch with some kind of God are in fact in touch with some kind of God. for a really good breakdown of that topic i would suggest reading Varieties of Religious Experience by William James. this is a scholarly treatment of religious experience from various traditions by one of the most intelligent men to have ever lived.

i have had both types of experience. we are discussing something i have direct knowledge of.

 

[Jack Handy jr]

You're not going to let me steer it back to the post you made only two posts before my reply? The fuck are you talking about you lunatic?

You've reviewed polygraph tests for five years and you haven't learned yet that they don't actually work as well as people think they do? For one, they can absolutely be beaten by people who have the most basic instructions on how they work. Second, they don't work period for a lot of people. Untrained people wrongfully pass police lie detectors frequently.

There's a reason they aren't court admissable. They are pseudoscience and unreliable. Real polygraph examiners understand that the myth they can't be beaten is what gets people to fess up when a polygraph is admitted.

On top of that the first polygraph administered to Bob Lazar was inconclusive.


Of course you would fall for that bullshit pseudoscience.[/QUOTE/

Fyi resulting to name calling is the call sign of an intellectually lazy person and you seem mad...I had hope for you when this started

 

[empsim]

So out of all the infinite possiblities what alien life could be and look like, they happen to have the size and look that Hollywood thought of and fly around in spaceships?

Also Snowden said when he had pretty much full access to government information and was bored he searched everything for aliens and found nothing.

 

[terrapin]

So out of all the infinite possiblities what alien life could be and look like, they happen to have the size and look that Hollywood thought of and fly around in spaceships?

Also Snowden said when he had pretty much full access to government information and was bored he searched everything for aliens and found nothing.

sightings came first then hollywood built characters on the sightings fyi.

 

[Jack Handy jr]

@jgarner

look man were getting off on the wrong foot you called me gullible...well fucking gullible to be exact. And I called you a typical lazy skeptic. Look man maybe I do believe accounts of UFO's an alien encounters a little too easily and tbh I think you calling BULLSHIT on everything is lazy.

I DO NOT believe every UFO or supposed alien encounter I've researched or heard about however I believe that tens of thousands of people have seen unidentified aerial phenomenon that they cant explain and many have interacted with "aliens" we cant be alone in the cosmos surely you'll agree with that.

The former Govenor of Arizona Arizona Fife Symington


Is a former Air force pilot that said he witnessed the craft reported in the phoenix lights incident
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights
fly directly over him. Fife said the craft was translucent yet visible...that's that active camouflage I've been mentioning. He said it was at least 200 feet across and made no sound with no obvious form of conventional propulsuion.

now Jgarner....pizan....Why would he lie man? To what?... further his political career? No it would make no sense for him to lie when he could just regurgitate the Air Force's official cover for the incident. Which was night training flares fom A-10 warthogs hmm...

or take this guy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_1628_incident

This guy was a 747 pilot for Japan Airlines flying cargo over alaska to Japan. According to him and his navigator they encounterd a UFO that was walnut shaped and according to him the size of an aircraft carrier. U.S. Air force base Elmendorf, Alaska confirmed the radar hit?!?!? Are you going to call bullshit on this guy too? What reason would a Japanese airline pilot have to lie? So let's see the man was

1.ridiculed
2.grounded for years
3. and i'll assume cost himself many sleepless and angst filled nights.

Now to call bull shit on him because you're too....let's just say unmotivated to atleast look into the story and his claims. Would be you just being argumentative and douchy, for argumentative and douchy's sake.

I read one of your posts' where you stated that you're a former jarhead. So I know you wouldn't be that way right? Now as a former Marine that means for many years of your life you worked for the Department of the Navy..(it says so right on your gyrene service jacket). So as a Marine why are you essentially calling bull shit on Commander Fravor's account of what he and his squadron encountered off of San Diego in 2004?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Nimitz_UFO_incident

bro look a lot of these people like the three here are HIGHLY credible.I could sense your irritation building while responding to @fizban and myself during this thread....just relax bro. I didn't start this thread in the S&C forum no less(smh) to start a flame war or to get yet another sherdog blood enemy/feud going. You think I'm gullible... I think you're being lazy...that's no need for us to meet irl for dueling pistols at high noon.

I just think that this is a fascinating topic and imho we will see official disclosure in our life time.

 

[BitFlip]

Uh



If you dont know that sightings are in the millions you have not even done the most basic of research. Its annoying that people like you that try hard to be the straight shooters dont even bother to do basic research.

Worldwide sightings of UFO's are probably higher than 50 million given that less that 1 in 10 people are likely to report a sighting. I did not report mine and it was a direct sighting with secondary contact.

You dont even know what you are talking about and its silly.

People are bullshitters, people I've heard talking about it has not made me into a believer... where is all the good footage of it? I haven't done research, because if it was evident everyone would have seen it. Right now you have to already believe in it to believe the evidence. That's where we are, and you seem to be the silly one of us being so upset about someone not believing what you believe.

Take pictures next time you meet up with aliens and convince people that way instead of trying to do it with nonsense.

 

[DoomPatrol]

I like how you consistently fail to actually address any of my points. Maybe that's why my respect for your position isn't that great.

 

[terrapin]

People are bullshitters, people I've heard talking about it has not made me into a believer... where is all the good footage of it? I haven't done research, because if it was evident everyone would have seen it. Right now you have to already believe in it to believe the evidence. That's where we are, and you seem to be the silly one of us being so upset about someone not believing what you believe.

Take pictures next time you meet up with aliens and convince people that way instead of trying to do it with nonsense.

i cant accept millions of people all being bullshitters. I dont know a single person that would lie about it. i know people who have seen them. I have seen them. the tv show The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch filmed one while doing the first season of the show and put it on the show itself.

fact is people see them all the time and film them all the time on cell phones. there is tons of evidence but some people simply cant see what is right in front of them.

your statement that you already have to be a believer to believe the evidence is factually incorrect. Many people have become convinced that this is happening precisely from looking at the evidence. this is actually very common concerning this topic. this is another false assumption you have made because you have not really bothered to look into it.

also i dont really care to convince anyone. Its your loss not mine if you cant see the reality of it. i lose nothing if some random person on the net doesnt believe. anyone who cant accept the word of millions of witnesses is missing something imortant about life and doesnt matter in these conversations.

those of us who know cant bother to wait for those who dont want to know.

also i dont sound upset. you were making factually incorrect statements about this topic while trying to play the straight shooter scientific card. that is a kind of hypocrisy that goes on with this topic that needs to be pointed out. its not personal, its just relevant.

i encourage you to really take the time to look into some of these cases with an open mind. It might surprise you what you come up with.

 

[BearGrounds]

sightings came first then hollywood built characters on the sightings fyi.

My favorite example of this, is the Kelly Hopkinsville encounter.

Sabeleye, the pokemon, is modeled after the story.

Would be awesome if it happened during my lifetime, what a technological leap that would be if they share anything... unless they wipe us all out, but I believe in friendly aliens that would have no need to do us any harm.

I know some people think we are visited by aliens or that we have been visited, and no way to know for sure if that is true or not. But would people/governments try to keep it hidden if it happened? Nowadays everyone walks around with a camera in their phone and can film and they would spread that on the internet right away, I think stopping the info is impossible in most scenarios. I'm talking about a UFO landing somewhere, not a dot, light or a blur that moves in weird ways.

Camera captures won't prove anything to the skeptics.

You don't have to stop the spread of video and images, just need to prevent mainstream scientific confirmation; that's all.

OK, 'll go into the history for you.

The 7' tall blonde haired blue eyed anatomically modern human Nordic aliens from the Pleiades star system were first encountered by the contactee George Adamski. Here's a photo he took of one of their flying saucers:

(a lamp)

I haven't read all that deep into this, admittedly. Hadn't heard of Admaski, just Billy Meier.

If what you say is true, and he is indeed the sole originator of the "Nordic alien", well that would be a pretty bad look for that particular case.

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

I've looked into the Phoenix Lights

They were flares dropped by US military planes

 

[BitFlip]

i cant accept millions of people all being bullshitters. I dont know a single person that would lie about it. i know people who have seen them. I have seen them. the tv show The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch filmed one while doing the first season of the show and put it on the show itself.

fact is people see them all the time and film them all the time on cell phones. there is tons of evidence but some people simply cant see what is right in front of them.

your statement that you already have to be a believer to believe the evidence is factually incorrect. Many people have become convinced that this is happening precisely from looking at the evidence. this is actually very common concerning this topic. this is another false assumption you have made because you have not really bothered to look into it.

also i dont really care to convince anyone. Its your loss not mine if you cant see the reality of it. i lose nothing if some random person on the net doesnt believe. anyone who cant accept the word of millions of witnesses is missing something imortant about life and doesnt matter in these conversations.

those of us who know cant bother to wait for those who dont want to know.

also i dont sound upset. you were making factually incorrect statements about this topic while trying to play the straight shooter scientific card. that is a kind of hypocrisy that goes on with this topic that needs to be pointed out. its not personal, its just relevant.

i encourage you to really take the time to look into some of these cases with an open mind. It might surprise you what you come up with.

Yes, as you probably are aware by reading what I've said I'm not balls deep into this, I will check out the episode of that show I'd never heard of and give it a watch though.

More people have seen ghosts and talked to god (all of them)... so I guess that settles the arguments about their existence too? I don't think most people are bullshitters - some of them certainly are though, I find comedic value in that, but damaging to people who are not lunatic liars that have seen something that they cannot explain - I think they have a goto explanation for the unexplained... like the things they've seen could have been an alien spacecraft, could have been something else too. So if I see a light travelling across the night sky at speeds that no known technology can do you still have to have the goto explanation that it is aliens... I have no problem with someone believing that that's so, I might too if I'd seen it, I don't know what proof I would have that I didn't watch military technology though.

It's not hypocrisy that it isn't proven... I have no evidence for or against, I hope it's real, I hope we all get to meet an intelligent alien lifeform. But if they have been here in modern times it hasn't made a change to anything, I hope we would get something out of it, like a step in technology that's not just an adjacent step from what is previously known (1920s rocket propulsion probably not how aliens got here).

Camera captures won't prove anything to the skeptics.

You don't have to stop the spread of video and images, just need to prevent mainstream scientific confirmation; that's all.

You're right, that's true. I'm watching that and I'm still a skeptic. I'm just gonna wait until they stop taunting us and actually land and make their presence known... before that they don't seem to matter anyway, except to the people who gets to see or meet them.

I think we'd go about it differently then they have if we travelled 100000+ light years and came into contact with a species intelligent enough to have a language. If we planned to do it in secrecy the technology to make something appear invisible to the naked eye is invented long before we can warp space itself and travel the distances to find other intelligent beings in the galaxy and beyond.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

you cant explain away a mystery by inadequately debunking another mystery. you have basically said nothing and made no point either. millions of people see UFO's. they see them because the exist.

personally i think the majority of people who think they are in touch with some kind of God are in fact in touch with some kind of God. for a really good breakdown of that topic i would suggest reading Varieties of Religious Experience by William James. this is a scholarly treatment of religious experience from various traditions by one of the most intelligent men to have ever lived.

i have had both types of experience. we are discussing something i have direct knowledge of.

I appreciate your recommendation! I’ll check out William James.

I think you’ve proven my point, however.

Religion is a superstition. So are UFOs... and you are pretty obviously a superstitious person.

 

[DoomPatrol]

Sure, they could avoid briefing him. But there is nobody in the U.S. government who has the authority to withhold a national security secret from the President. If he asks or pursues information on aliens it’s illegal to lie to him or keep anything from him.

He knows if he wants to know; or else the entire government is a sham.

In any case, the idea that aliens are visiting the Earth has more in common with superstition than anything else. But it would be neat if it were true.

Although everything in space is constantly moving. Planets are like grains of sand in a tornado. A star chart with the current locations for every planet in the galaxy would be something to behold.

As much as I disagree with @fizban and @Jack Handy jr on the subject of UFO phenomena, I have to agree that if there were programs that existed, they most likely would not feel obligated to follow normal procedure to keep the POTUS informed. Since the President is an office that you can only hold temporarily, I can't imagine such an operation would tell the truth to whoever is currently holding it. It would be a secret held by the most dedicated career government officials. While the POTUS holds ultimate power, he isn't above being lied to if certain bodies wanted. It would be rather easy to divert funds and keep everyone out of the loop by hiding real activities under the guise of other action.

Now that said, I'll reiterate that I don't think there's any government body hiding secret alien knowledge or technology.

 

[Jack Handy jr]

I've looked into the Phoenix Lights

They were flares dropped by US military planes

good morning fellow X-filers...bro i've personally been involved with dozens and dozens of major exercises in the mid and late 90's where A-10's were doing close air support runs for us and i assure flares do not disperse or even initially illuminate in that manner...also i thinks it been a bit too skeptikal to discount the first hand accounts of over 200 eyewitness' in phoenix maricopa county that night

 

[terrapin]

I appreciate your recommendation! I’ll check out William James.

I think you’ve proven my point, however.

Religion is a superstition. So are UFOs... and you are pretty obviously a superstitious person.

No one should have the certainty you do based on a lack of experience.

If you read his book you will certainly not call it superstition. You may possibly think of it only as profound psychological transformation with a heap of chemical output from the brain though.

However I do not think it is possible to walk away from a work like that with anything less than deep respect for the level of transformation that religion has discovered and reproduced in people.