Social When is a sucker punch not a sucker punch?

[BEER]

It doesn't matter if some one has threatened you. If he is not expecting the punch it's a sucker punch. I agree it's his fault but still technically a sucker punch.

suck·er punch
noun

1. an unexpected punch or blow.

verb

1. hit (someone) with an unexpected punch or blow.
   "Joe sucker-punched him and knocked him

By that weirdly vague definition, any punch that was unexpected counts as a sucker punch? So a boxer who pivots off the line and hits a dude with a left hook the opponent didn't see would be "unexpected", but that's surely not a sucker punch.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Let’s be real this is all conjecture because you weenies are not out in these streets sucker punching anyone

 

[Bacco]

Whether it be the Street Coliseum or Worldstar or whatever, there are a lot of accusations of sucker punches.

Some people seem to believe that it's a sucker punch unless the guys are squared up pawing jabs at each other.

My personal opinion on the matter is that it doesn't count as a sucker punch if there are fighting words and/or threats within two steps of punching range. If you're talking shit and threatening someone who is that close to you, you're relying on pure faith that you don't get hit. That's not a sucker punch.

If someone runs up on you (especially from the side or back) and clocks you, sure. Sucker punch. It's hard for me to think of someone hitting someone face-to-face during shit talk as a sucker punch


Here is an example:

Spoiler

In the Reddit thread I first saw this, people were calling it a sucker punch. But the guy had a weapon (baton) and threatened to break the other guy's kneecaps. That's not a sucker punch. Thats a dude hoping his bravado would scare away someone ready to fight.

Discuss

Worked in security staff in clubs, seen plenty of scraps

you got two kind of people

- "Fair" ones that at some point do a big push or something else to make clear shit got physical

- everybody else

80%, maybe more, suckerpunch

It's a bitch world

 

[igrofungus]

If the dude can see you plain and simple it ain’t a sucker punch unless you’re like best friends and then one day you just decide to blast him out of nowhere. But if there’s any hostility and you can see each other it’s not a sucker punch.

 

[Speedy1]

Let’s be real this is all conjecture because you weenies are not out in these streets sucker punching anyone

 

[I Am Legion]

Whether it be the Street Coliseum or Worldstar or whatever, there are a lot of accusations of sucker punches.

Some people seem to believe that it's a sucker punch unless the guys are squared up pawing jabs at each other.

My personal opinion on the matter is that it doesn't count as a sucker punch if there are fighting words and/or threats within two steps of punching range. If you're talking shit and threatening someone who is that close to you, you're relying on pure faith that you don't get hit. That's not a sucker punch.

If someone runs up on you (especially from the side or back) and clocks you, sure. Sucker punch. It's hard for me to think of someone hitting someone face-to-face during shit talk as a sucker punch


Here is an example:

Spoiler

In the Reddit thread I first saw this, people were calling it a sucker punch. But the guy had a weapon (baton) and threatened to break the other guy's kneecaps. That's not a sucker punch. Thats a dude hoping his bravado would scare away someone ready to fight.

Discuss

Agree. I grew up in a really tough neighborhood when I was young until 9th grade. My Dad always told me hit first, hard, aim center face and try to break the nose. This temporarily blinds a bigger kid and you continue to throw. He used to tell me “Even if you lose at that point, you still win because you hurt him and the next guy will think twice”. The guys in my school that didn’t fight back were beaten daily. My rule is one of Space. If you enter my space in a threatening way, or after making threats, I’m punching first. I have done it a dozen times, and will continue to unless it’s a bs scenario that I can really walk away from.

 

[MoneyGun]

If someone is acting in a threatening manner while in someone elses personal space or is on his way into that space, that's on him. Don't want punched, keep your distance. The best ones are the guys that want to push around and shit like there needs to be an announcement before any blows are thrown. Stupid, lumpy faced bastards lol

 

[Uptown Swinger]

By that weirdly vague definition, any punch that was unexpected counts as a sucker punch? So a boxer who pivots off the line and hits a dude with a left hook the opponent didn't see would be "unexpected", but that's surely not a sucker punch.

I thought you would use that exact example to try to support your point. If you don't understand the difference between two fighters in the ring who are in a fight (and have already exchange punches) and the two dudes arguing in the video then it's not worth it for me to educate you any further. Enjoy being wrong. Ignorance must be bliss.

 

[aus101]

In high school a black kid sucker punched me in the back of the head but he fucked it up and destroyed his hand.

In college a brown kid sucked punched me in the side of the head but it skimmed off and he ran away when I turned around to fight him.

It hasn't proven to be a very effective punch in my experience.

I have a massive head btw.

Haha yeah I too have a large head and while I may never fit a hat properly at least when my head hit things it always seem to take it.

 

[BEER]

I thought you would use that exact example to try to support your point. If you don't understand the difference between two fighters in the ring who are in a fight (and have already exchange punches) and the two dudes arguing in the video then it's not worth it for me to educate you any further. Enjoy being wrong. Ignorance must be bliss.

You're not educating anyone.

You used a definition that just says "unexpected". If someone threatens you with physical harm, face to face, it's not a sucker punch to hit him, period.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

generally, if you are directly looking at your opponent it's NOT a sucker punch

now if you're facing them, and then you turn to your boy in a 'what's this guys problem?' kind of thing, and then he hits you?
You're dumb for turning your head, but that is a sucker punch.

keep your eyes on the prize. Back to the wall, head on a swivel is the best way to prevent EVER getting sucker punched

 

[MikeMcMann]

I respectfully disagree. Although well provoked , I still consider the video to be a sucker punch. Sucker punches can be used in self defense l

To me it doesn't matter what they are saying to each other or what one of them is holding. If he wasn't prepared to fight (although stupid and totally his fault) it is a sucker punch.

If the video were of the same 2 men saying "fuck you" to each other instead of threatening knees and the one was holding a bottle of water instead of a weapon... I would call it a much less provoked sucker punch.

^Agree with above although this case is marginal due to the threat.

But guys shit talking one another, and one guy throwing bombs to get them off before he thinks the other guy knows he is in a fight is a sucker punch.

Most people here seem to be defining it by what they think makes is deserved. A sucker punch canbe deserved but is still a sucker punch.

NO sucker punch can happen here...

sucker punch

See how in the first both KNOW what is coming and is up and are prepared to fight and how that differs in the second.


The reason for a sucker punch is you do not want a fair fight where you match skill to skill. You hope to end it before the other guy truly knows he is in a fight.


(thus why I say the OP is a little grey as the other guy had threatened even if he did not think either was actually going to act)

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

That Hank Hill?

 

[MikeMcMann]

By that weirdly vague definition, any punch that was unexpected counts as a sucker punch? So a boxer who pivots off the line and hits a dude with a left hook the opponent didn't see would be "unexpected", but that's surely not a sucker punch.

Once you square off and the fight is on (see my hockey example), all punches are expected even if you have the skill to land one he could not see coming.

I think that definition is fair.

The entire point of throwing a sucker punch is to try and gain advantage by landing a punch before the other guy knows he is in a fight.

Almost everyone agreeing with you is saying some form of the above. They just think 'he deserves it... thus not a sucker punch', which is not how it works IMO.

I maintain the OP though is in the grey area for me as the guy is verbally threatening. I would probably call it a justified sucker punch. Take the same situation with the two of them like that just jawing back and forth (without the overt threat) and it is clearly a sucker punch, imo. There are far more confrontations that like that guys walk away from then end up in punches.

 

[hiphopnazi]

Ask my wife.

 

[MikeMcMann]

Worked in security staff in clubs, seen plenty of scraps

you got two kind of people

- "Fair" ones that at some point do a big push or something else to make clear shit got physical

- everybody else

80%, maybe more, suckerpunch

It's a bitch world

i think most guys who worked as bouncers would agree with your definition.

Guys can be jawing at one another all the time. Big talk, no action and break and go their separate ways. No fight happens. No punches thrown. Probably the norm.

But then you get the guys who take the opportunity to sneak a punch in when they know the other guy is not prepared or ready or expecting it.

it does not stop being a sucker punch based on knowing how asshole'ish the guy was who was punched based or what he said, which I believe many are using as the standard here.

You can say the guy deserved the sucker punch, but that still makes it a sucker punch. That is how I would define the OP.

 

[MikeMcMann]

@Phlog , curious how you would define a sucker punch given your bouncing experience.

 

[minute bull]

Almost everyone agreeing with you is saying some form of the above. They just think 'he deserves it... thus not a sucker punch', which is not how it works IMO.

He's argued to a point where the term is entirely meaningless, as though both parties have to expressly acknowledge/confirm to one another that, yes, the fight hath indeed starteth. Barring that any first punch he deems a sucker punch ... yet not that it should matter because often it's warranted so what difference does he make what anyone calls it? Word salad! Who is this? Prank caller! Prank caller!

 

[Spounman]

Well one time my buddy and I were sitting at the bar he owns and right next to us this cholo ghetto couple were arguing and the guy slapped the woman hard as hell across her face. My buddy grabbed the guy and carried him out. He starts telling my buddy that he's going to call his boys to come fuck him up. I said do it. Then he took his shirt off and started pointing at his tattoos telling me you don't know me I'll get my boys blah blah blah. We went back inside and dude comes in fast coming right at me, before he got close, my buddy punched him out of nowhere knocking him out cold. I don't consider that a sucker punch because we already kicked him out, he hit a woman, and now he was coming back at me. Sad thing was, the girl he slapped started yelling at us....why did you hit him blah blah blah. When the cops got there he was trying to fight them, he thought they knocked him out.

That's about the closest I've seen to a sucker punch outside of a movie. I was a bouncer for a few years and I don't remember ever seeing a sucker punch.

 

[MikeMcMann]

He's argued to a point where the term is entirely meaningless, as though both parties have to expressly acknowledge/confirm to one another that, yes, the fight hath indeed starteth. Barring that any first punch he deems a sucker punch ... yet not that it should matter because often it's warranted so what difference does he make what anyone calls it? Word salad! Who is this? Prank caller! Prank caller!

I do think the two guys have to acknowledge in one form or the other that the fight is beginning. That can be a push back and stance or saying the words.

Guys jaw with one another more times than not and no punches are thrown. You can call any punch then not a sucker punch as long as they are jawing first. I would be curious what jawign would you say is never a sucker punch? And sucker punches CAN be justified but they are still sucker punches.


I stand by this i said...

"...Guys can be jawing at one another all the time. Big talk, no action and break and go their separate ways. No fight happens. No punches thrown. Probably the norm.

But then you get the guys who take the opportunity to sneak a punch in when they know the other guy is not prepared or ready or expecting it.

it does not stop being a sucker punch based on knowing how asshole'ish the guy was ..."