When do you consider a fighter big? Large? Able to talk crap to WWE giants? Conor too small?

[$uicideboy$]

ts lowkey a manlet

 

[NHB7]

Honestly I can't believe this debate is still occurring. I don't even like the Gracies that much, but they proved a long time ago that strength alone doesn't beat technique. Here, a 230 lb professional body builder, 1992 Mr. Olympia challenged a 150 lb Gracie in 1994 to a no holds barred fight based solely on the premise that he believed size beats skill in a fight:

 

[King Kerns]

Heavyweight and light heavyweight fighters some middleweights but size really does matter.

 

[Malvo]

So Conor Mcgregor is 5'9 apparently (probably more like 5'8 and a 1/2) or 174cm or maybe 175cm (5 feet 8.9 inches). And he weighs what normally 165lbs?

Many people are now saying these huge WWE giants can destroy him. If they had minimal training st the least they could own him.

So what height or weight do you consider big? What must a guys height be at a minimum and what must his weight be?

Can 5'10, Daniel Cormier who weighs 225lbs call out WWE giants?

Can 5'10 something, Mark Hunt who weighs 265lbs to 275lbs call out WWE giants?

Can 5'9 Hector Lombard who weighs 205lbs or more at his walk around weight call out WWE giants?

Can 5'11, Robbie Lawler who weighs 188lbs talk crap to WWE giants?

Can 6'1, 240lbs Cain Velazquez?

Can 6'2, 205lb Chris Weidman?

Can 6'4, 220lb Jon Jones?

Can 5'9, 170lbs Eddie Alvarez?

Stosselweight

 

[fatlipjesus]

Hoost had all the tools to beat sapp he hurt him multiple times each fight.
Hoost has a low fight iq and a sky high ego thats why he lost.
Instead of moving his head and ducking sapps wild telegraphed right hands over and over again.
He decided to stand there with his tiny glove up and absorb them, he knew they were coming he just tryed to out tank a bigger tank.
Tyson would have ripped sapp a new asshole if that fight would have ever happen and he was much smaller than Hoost and sapp

Of course, Hoost fought like a tard. But it still shows size matters.

And that size difference was no way near as pronounced as say... Conor vs The Rock.

Imagine if Conor had to take the piledriver that Sapp did to Nog...... he'd be dead (Im still not sure how Nog isn't, actually).

 

[fatlipjesus]

Here is a 170 lb Muay Thai guy beating respectable HW kickboxers that would all kick the shit out of 99% of pro wrestlers.



I'll see what else I can find.

This is in kickboxing. The HW's can't just grab ahold of the little guy and snap his neck like a twig, which is what would happen if someone the size of Brock or The Rock got ahold of someone the size of Conor.

Some little guys can still win though, a lot of it depends on their style.

 

[ChopToTheButt]

As I said in another thread about this, watch the first 10 or so UFC's. You'll see big scary guy gets his ass whooped by small skilled guy happen before your eyes.

 

[The guest]

I don't see a need for anybody from either company to talk shit about anybody in the other company.

It's fucking apples, and oranges and stupid to shit talk about.

 

[NHB7]

This is in kickboxing. The HW's can't just grab ahold of the little guy and snap his neck like a twig, which is what would happen if someone the size of Brock or The Rock got ahold of someone the size of Conor.

Some little guys can still win though, a lot of it depends on their style.

There is a big difference between fighting a pro wrestler with a strong collegiate career in wrestling and a prowrestlers who is basically just a body builder. Conor can't beat the former, but he'd easily defeat the latter. The Gracies proved that.

 

[ThePatriot]

Any welterweight can, and a good portion of big LWs maybe

Let's just say people from the 5 actual weight classes (post 2010 classes are card filler)

 

[fatlipjesus]

There is a big difference between fighting a pro wrestler with a strong collegiate career in wrestling and a prowrestlers who is basically just a body builder. Conor can't beat the former, but he'd easily defeat the latter. The Gracies proved that.

No, the Gracies proved that a high level black belt can beat people who know nothing about submission defense. This is why I said it depends on their style.

Conor can't knock out Nate Diaz but you think he's going to go around one-shotting guys who are 6'4 250+ lbs of muscle and who basically take a beating for a living?

He sure as fuck isn't going to be arm-barring them all.

 

[NHB7]

No, the Gracies proved that a high level black belt can beat people who know nothing about submission defense. This is why I said it depends on their style.

Conor can't knock out Nate Diaz but you think he's going to go around one-shotting guys who are 6'4 250+ lbs of muscle and who basically take a beating for a living?

He sure as fuck isn't going to be arm-barring them all.

McGregor would submit them also. BTW the Gracie in that video used terrible striking and still out struck that bodybuilder to the point the bodybuilder gave up on the stand up and went for a double leg.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

You probably won't get a serious reply in here. I saw a similar thread recently where someone was asking about the height of people on here and almost everyone was afraid to put their actual height.

Yet they're all the ones calling people "manlets" for being 5'9.

Yeah the more logical and intellectual a thread is in this sub-forum the less attention it gets and the more trolling occurs.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

I think you underestimate how big WWs and MWs are. A guy like Lawler is 5'11 and is built like a 200lb tank. He's a big guy. Guys like Rory, Magny, Hyun Gyu Lim, and Condit are big dudes, especially when they're not cutting weight. Even the shorter guys at WW are built like powerhouses. Most MWs walk around at well over 200lbs of muscle. If you saw guys like Okami or Luke in person, you'd realize that they're massive.

Most WW won't be heavier than 200lbs though unless they are fat/out of shape.

Johny Hendricks is/was one of the biggest and fattest Welterweights. At his heaviest he says he would get up to 220-225lbs and be at 22% to 24% body fat.

Hendricks had to lose all that fat and get down to 205lbs or 200lbs and that is how he was during his camp. Then he would work dwn to 194lbs and then finish his camp at that weight. Then cut water weight (25lbs or so) and then rehydrate and be 194lbs in the cage on fight night.

That was the old Hendricks though and he said he stopped doing that because it was killing his body. And because Dolce told him he isnt in optimum fighting shape doing that.

And my thread was with regards to when do you consider a fighter big vs a WWE genetic freak?

The consensus seeks to be that 6ft MW's wouldn't have trouble beating a 6'6 280lbs roided WWE guy. But that a 5'9, 160lbs guy would struggle to beat a WWE guy the size of Brock Lesnar.


And Neil, Lim and Condit have MW frames (at least) and MW heights. And yet they fight at WW. For fuck sakes Lim fought at MW and yet this 6'3 skinny guy wants to fight 5'9 to 5'11 fighters at WW. It's a little weak.

I already had a thread on optimum weight ranges based on height for weight classes. People seem to agreed. It is unlikely we will ever see tall champions at the lower weight classes (lightweight and below) and even welterweight all the top elite's and the bulk of the division are wrestlers/grapplers who are stout and we'll built and stand between 5'9 to 5'11 with a few 6'0 flat guys like Wonderboy.

 

[Grr]

Minowaman.

 

[laleggenda27]

Most WW won't be heavier than 200lbs though unless they are fat/out of shape.

Johny Hendricks is/was one of the biggest and fattest Welterweights. At his heaviest he says he would get up to 220-225lbs and be at 22% to 24% body fat.

Hendricks had to lose all that fat and get down to 205lbs or 200lbs and that is how he was during his camp. Then he would work dwn to 194lbs and then finish his camp at that weight. Then cut water weight (25lbs or so) and then rehydrate and be 194lbs in the cage on fight night.

That was the old Hendricks though and he said he stopped doing that because it was killing his body. And because Dolce told him he isnt in optimum fighting shape doing that.

And my thread was with regards to when do you consider a fighter big vs a WWE genetic freak?

The consensus seeks to be that 6ft MW's wouldn't have trouble beating a 6'6 280lbs roided WWE guy. But that a 5'9, 160lbs guy would struggle to beat a WWE guy the size of Brock Lesnar.


And Neil, Lim and Condit have MW frames (at least) and MW heights. And yet they fight at WW. For fuck sakes Lim fought at MW and yet this 6'3 skinny guy wants to fight 5'9 to 5'11 fighters at WW. It's a little weak.

I already had a thread on optimum weight ranges based on height for weight classes. People seem to agreed. It is unlikely we will ever see tall champions at the lower weight classes (lightweight and below) and even welterweight all the top elite's and the bulk of the division are wrestlers/grapplers who are stout and we'll built and stand between 5'9 to 5'11 with a few 6'0 flat guys like Wonderboy.

Again, I think you'd be surprised at how many WWs walk around at over 200lbs. And they're not fat. They may not be in fight shape, but they're still in great everyday shape. Hendricks is the most extreme case of a WW getting out of shape. That's the exception, not the rule.

In terms of a 5'9, 160 fighter against a huge roid monster, it depends on the roid monster's training. If he has zero actual fight training, the fighter would likely work him over. But if the roid monster had a bit of training (it wouldn't take much training), then the pro fighter would likely be in trouble.

In terms of tall champions, it depends on what your definition of "tall" is. If we're talking about fighters who are tall for their division, then Joanna Champion, Dom Cruz, and Conor are all tall for their respective divisions. Then, obviously, you have guys like Bones and Luke at the higher weights. In general, fighters who are tall for their division seem to do very well.

 

[fatlipjesus]

McGregor would submit them also. BTW the Gracie in that video used terrible striking and still out struck that bodybuilder to the point the bodybuilder gave up on the stand up and went for a double leg.

...... uhh yeah, I'm sure Conor's gonna start subbing people with over 100 lbs size advantage.

Pedro Sauer is an 8th degree coral belt who also started training boxing at 5 years old, along with Judo and tae kwon do.

but yeah I suppose we can compare that to Conor's white belt.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

Again, I think you'd be surprised at how many WWs walk around at over 200lbs. And they're not fat. They may not be in fight shape, but they're still in great everyday shape. Hendricks is the most extreme case of a WW getting out of shape. That's the exception, not the rule.

In terms of a 5'9, 160 fighter against a huge roid monster, it depends on the roid monster's training. If he has zero actual fight training, the fighter would likely work him over. But if the roid monster had a bit of training (it wouldn't take much training), then the pro fighter would likely be in trouble.

In terms of tall champions, it depends on what your definition of "tall" is. If we're talking about fighters who are tall for their division, then Joanna Champion, Dom Cruz, and Conor are all tall for their respective divisions. Then, obviously, you have guys like Bones and Luke at the higher weights. In general, fighters who are tall for their division seem to do very well.

1) Hendricks is a most extreme example and is a staple to use because he is the ONLY welterweight other than Anthony JoHanson I have ever heard of or known to get that fucking heavy and fat. But keep in mind the bulk of fighters in that division and in the top 10 and the former champs are in the 5'9 to 5'11 range.

2) I consider taller than 6'0ft to be tall. Cruz is not tall and while taller than average for his division he still largely falls at the upper end of average (sort of). And with that said Cruz is not the tallest BW outhere. Conor is upper end range in height for his division but he is not a + 6 footer. The vast majority of mankind would not consider a barely 5'9 fighter to be tall.

3) As I and others have talked about (including someone like Rogan). The +6ft guys at the lower weight classes often get muscled around and manhandled by the shorter and more muscular and stout fighters. In order for these taller fighters (like Condit) or Kendall Grove, etc to be of comparable strength or stronger than these shorter fighters they would need to gain significant mass/muscle and strength. However, I'm doing that they would become way too heavy for their current weight class. And would have to move up a weight class or possibly two.

The UFC and Worldwide MMA is filled with way too many examples of this. It isn't some conspiracy or just weird coincidence after another. There is a logical explanation for why there really aren't +6ft tall guys dominating in the lower weight classes atomweight, flyweight, bantamweight, featherweight, lightweight, and even welterweight.

A healthy in shape +6'1 fighter should weigh more than 180 lbs because if he doesn't then he is really skinny and is likely to be manhandled.

4) Rockhold is actually not that exceptionally tall for his division. He is 6'3 and the vast vast majority of the division is 6ft or taller.

5) Jones is 6'4 which isn't that absurd for LHW. It is not like Jones is 6'9 or something.

6) Joanna would be at flyweight (125lbs) if the division existed. And most likely the SW champ wuld be someone shorter. Still though Joanna isn't that tall. And wouldnt be considered tall for a female.

 

[hasar]

Emanuel was pretty big.
He couldn't fight, though

I lol'd

 

[frye666]

So Conor Mcgregor is 5'9 apparently (probably more like 5'8 and a 1/2) or 174cm or maybe 175cm (5 feet 8.9 inches). And he weighs what normally 165lbs?

Many people are now saying these huge WWE giants can destroy him. If they had minimal training st the least they could own him.

So what height or weight do you consider big? What must a guys height be at a minimum and what must his weight be?

Can 5'10, Daniel Cormier who weighs 225lbs call out WWE giants?

Can 5'10 something, Mark Hunt who weighs 265lbs to 275lbs call out WWE giants?

Can 5'9 Hector Lombard who weighs 205lbs or more at his walk around weight call out WWE giants?

Can 5'11, Robbie Lawler who weighs 188lbs talk crap to WWE giants?

Can 6'1, 240lbs Cain Velazquez?

Can 6'2, 205lb Chris Weidman?

Can 6'4, 220lb Jon Jones?

Can 5'9, 170lbs Eddie Alvarez?

Look, this is what you want to hear. Conor can beat up a 300 lb man with a wrestling background etc.
Well, he can't in most cases. Sorry man.