Social When did horse archers first face a large number of plate armor wearing opponents?

[Nizam al-Mulk]

And when did they develop tactics specifically designed for dealing with them?

 

[GSP_37]

I have a feeling ancient warriors didn't keep such written records.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

I have a feeling ancient warriors didn't keep such written records.

But priests did.

 

[pugilistico]

I'm not a history expert but did they ever? Plate armor is expensive so the knights that could afford them would be in the minority. I'm assuming you're talking about knights covered in plate from head to toe. And to my understanding, that kind of armor came around the same time early guns started to become a thing, and guns made horse archers less of a thing.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

I'm not a history expert but did they ever? Plate armor is expensive so the knights that could afford them would be in the minority. I'm assuming you're talking about knights covered in plate from head to toe. And to my understanding, that kind of armor came around the same time early guns started to become a thing, and guns made horse archers less of a thing.

I am sure the Crimean Khanate faced dudes like that. The time frame makes sense.

 

[Coup de Gracie]

 

[El Panteron]

And when did they develop tactics specifically designed for dealing with them?

Plate armor got more widespread in the second half of the 15th century, while the Mongol invasion happened in the 13th century.
Still arrows can't reliably pierce through chain mail for the most part.
Still it'd still be a minority of the army wearing armor, arrows would serve to channel and control the opposing formation

 

[El Panteron]

I'm not a history expert but did they ever? Plate armor is expensive so the knights that could afford them would be in the minority. I'm assuming you're talking about knights covered in plate from head to toe. And to my understanding, that kind of armor came around the same time early guns started to become a thing, and guns made horse archers less of a thing.

Hadn't read this post earlier but yes you are right.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

Plate armor got more widespread in the second half of the 15th century, while the Mongol invasion happened in the 13th century.

And as a result the mongols parked themselves into Eastern Europe and the ME, plenty of chances to face that sort of armor.

 

[El Panteron]

And as a result the mongols parked themselves into Eastern Europe and the ME, plenty of chances to face that sort of armor.

Full plate armor wasn't really a thing until the very end of the middle ages, it's not like what you see on TV. By then the horse archer empires had already declined for many years.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

Full plate armor wasn't really a thing until the very end of the middle ages, it's not like what you see on TV. By then the horse archer empires had already declined for many years.

They declined does not mean they stopped fighting and raiding. Also the decline in this case means not dominating most of Eurasia. At that period they captured a Chinese emperor, the Manchus conquered China, made Russia pay tribute...

 

[El Panteron]

They declined does not mean they stopped fighting and raiding. Also the decline in this case means not dominating most of Eurasia. At that period they captured a Chinese emperor, the Manchus conquered China, made Russia play tribute...

It does mean that they weren't at the doorstep of Europe anymore. Also their empires were multicultural, for example the closest thing to your question would be the war between the Golden Horde and Muscovy (now Russia), but the Golden Horde had troops from Genoa and the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth fighting with them, and the Golden Horde themselves weren't really Mongols either, they used to be ruled by Mongols but were made up of many peoples, among them notably the Tatars.
Muscovy won by matching the hit and run tactics and using cavalry.
Also they weren't wearing plate (it was late 14th century) but mail.

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

It does mean that they weren't at the doorstep of Europe anymore. Also their empires were multicultural, for example the closest thing to your question would be the war between the Golden Horde and Muscovy (now Russia), but the Golden Horde had troops from Genoa and the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth fighting with them, and the Golden Horde themselves weren't really Mongols either, they used to be ruled by Mongols but were made up of many peoples, among them notably the Tatars.
Muscovy won by matching the hit and run tactics and using cavalry.
Also they weren't wearing plate (it was late 14th century) but mail.

They were literally in the Ukraine. Their warrior classes were not that multicultural. That is like saying the Poland was multicultural because the Free polish forces fought along with the french and Brazillians.

The Crimean Khanate assisted the Turks in many of their wars also raided Poland. The Europeans did think of all the many nomads that joined the mongols as mongols.

The last Khanate the Khivan was eliminated by Russia in something like the 1820s.

 

[El Panteron]

They were literally in the Ukraine. Their warrior classes were not that multicultural. That is like saying the Poland was multicultural because the Free polish forces fought along with the french and Brazillians.

What?

The Crimean Khanate assisted the Turks in many of their wars also raided Poland. The Europeans did think of all the many nomads that joined the mongols as mongols.

The Crimean Khanate wasn't really the same thing as the horse archers empires. They were Tatars, not Mongols. They fought AGAINST the Golden Horde. They usually avoided open battle and of course eventually adopted the use of guns too.

The last Khanate the Khivan was eliminated by Russia in something like the 1820s.

My sweetling, they weren't shooting arrows from horseback in the 1820s, were they?

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

What?



The Crimean Khanate wasn't really the same thing as the horse archers empires. They were Tatars, not Mongols. They fought AGAINST the Golden Horde. They usually avoided open battle and of course eventually adopted the use of guns too.



My sweetling, they weren't shooting arrows from horseback in the 1820s, were they?

I do not know how i could phrase it differently so you can get it.

The OP says horse archers, not a specific ethnic group.
No shit they were not the same but confrontation was still thing with the Europeans. They fought the Polish without much Turkish help often. Just because they usually avoided open battle does not mean they did not fight all sorts of different type of Polish and Hungarian army units..

This is completely an other tangent, the Kalmyks shot at Napoleons soldiers with bows so some of them probably still used bows.

 

[Cole train]

This reminds me i just read wolf of the plains

Great book

 

[Nizam al-Mulk]

This reminds me i just read wolf of the plains

Great book

If i am reading historical fiction i prefer it to be about not the most famous people in history.

 

[zapataxiv]

I don't know about full plate but you could look at the greco-persian wars. scythians made up a part of the persian army and they notably were doing work in the battle of platea. seems like they got out tacticed though

also the xiongnu vs the han empire probably has some good examples

going further back the scythians against the persians
although I have no idea about the persian specific armor kit

 

[pugilistico]

That scene was ridiculous to me. It would be retarded for a guy who's topless to engage in a sword fight with a guy who's covered in steel plate armor. I don't care how good of a swordsman you are.

I don't know about full plate but you could look at the greco-persian wars. scythians made up a part of the persian army and they notably were doing work in the battle of platea. seems like they got out tacticed though

also the xiongnu vs the han empire probably has some good examples

going further back the scythians against the persians
although I have no idea about the persian specific armor kit

The Greeks had bronze breast plates but they weren't covered in armor like the late medieval knights so I don't know if the TS counts them.

 

[tasteslikechicken]

I'm not a history expert but did they ever? Plate armor is expensive so the knights that could afford them would be in the minority. I'm assuming you're talking about knights covered in plate from head to toe. And to my understanding, that kind of armor came around the same time early guns started to become a thing, and guns made horse archers less of a thing.

Never heard of horse archers in medieval Europe.