Opinion When Christians Are Under Attack, Muslims and the Left Need to Defend Them - Mehdi Hasan

[Thurisaz]

Anytime a Muslim says something that doesn't sit well with those who wish to bad mouth Islam or Muslims they can cry "taqiyya".

Indeed. Too bad for the honest ones, but thanks to that doctrine there's absolutely no way to tell if they're genuine or not. That we have not been able to tell a liar from an honest one is the main reason there are no-go zones, terror, robbery and rape epidemics in the West today.

It's very convenient for you even when the vast majority of Muslims have never heard of it.

I presume your precious imagination went and made that survey for us in all of .3 seconds, snowflake.

How ignorant do you have to be to believe that a religion of almost 2 billion people can keep secrets.

My struggle continues; I'm absolutely baffled as to why you say things like that. There are quite many of those who have not kept their intentions nor their opinions secret.

That we all, as a whole, are plotting to pretend one thing and then pounce with our real intentions when the opportunity presents itself.

When it has happened time and time again it would be utterly stupid to pretend that it doesn't.

That is an example of ignorance, bias and bigotry that allows one group to hate another.

You don't need me for that. All you need to do is open the Quran.

That's why I used the example of "blood libel" which was an accusation, an antisemitic canard, accusing Jews of murdering Christian children in order to use their blood as part of religious rituals.

My struggle to understand the relevance was here: you equate actually happening and amply documented terrorism and assorted evil with rumors of them. Unless your purpose was to imply that there is something behind blood libel after all I don't see how the comparison is remotely accurate.

 

[salamander]

We should do a better job of defending ourselves against those that want to kill us.

 

[Hard To Tell]

Mehdi Hassan: "non-Muslims live like animals"

I was pretty gobsmacked to see Mehdi Hassan writing something like this, so my initial reaction was not 'good for him' but more 'what is he up to?'. It is impossible to trust these people.

 

[spamking]

Jesus counsels Christians to turn the other cheek and to not fight back. So defending Christians goes against the bible.

SMH at you heathens suggesting going against the bible.

I think you have seeking revenge or retaliation confused with actual self defense . . . . unless I'm missing the sarcasm you don't really believe a Christian has been told to just sit back and let a kid or other innocent person be abused/harmed do you?

 

[King of Fists]

I think you have seeking revenge or retaliation confused with actual self defense . . . . unless I'm missing the sarcasm you don't really believe a Christian has been told to just sit back and let a kid or other innocent person be abused/harmed do you?

Scripture is pretty clear on this.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/5-39-compare.html

Notice he didn't say "only resist if there are children involved or to come to the aid of others."

The scripture can be hard to swallow if you're looking for comfort on this earth.

 

[svirk]

Your 1st priority when you go to a new country should be to learn or attempt to learn the language used in that country, not expect the people there to learn yours.

No immigrants expect you to learn their language. Right wing nut jobs would be better off if they didn't just accept nonsense like this. I agree that immigrants should be forced to learn the language of the country they are trying to enter.

There is nothing worse than seeing people who escaped to the United States from these war torn countries turn their back to the flag when the anthem is played. I have seen this happen numerous times.

If being pissed off by this makes me a bigot, then so be it.

You are a bigot because you imagine your claims are true. Bigots invent or exaggerate the faults of the those they are bigoted against. There are, practically speaking, no immigrants turning their back to the flag in America. If such people exist they are such a small minority as to be insignificant.

 

[svirk]

Indeed. Too bad for the honest ones, but thanks to that doctrine there's absolutely no way to tell if they're genuine or not.

What doctrine? The one you and a pack of right wing lunatics who happen to be experts on Islamic theology interpreted on behalf of Muslims? You are not merely misinformed but a dishonest bigot.

 

[svirk]

We should do a better job of defending ourselves against those that want to kill us.

You should and if you do defend yourself from unwarranted, evil and brutal attacks you will be called a terrorist and sent to a torture center to be brutalized farther by the people who are killing and raping their way across your country. At least that's what happened in Iraq.

 

[spamking]

Scripture is pretty clear on this.

It is . . . and specific to personal revenge/retaliation . . . and holding on to the desire to get back at someone who has wronged you instead of forgiving them.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/5-39-compare.html

Notice he didn't say "only resist if there are children involved or to come to the aid of others."

The scripture can be hard to swallow if you're looking for comfort on this earth.

Especially if you're just going to completely ignore what I said about retaliation and revenge . . . which is also a very common interpretation of that particular scripture. The reason He doesn't specifically mention children is due to the very narrow scope of the application . . . . to individual revenge and retaliation.

Take a look at how Martin Luther and John Calvin interpret/explain the verse . . .

 

[vengeful]

Curious, when historically black churches are burned down, is it the right or left that defends them? Since these are Christians that are primarily democrats.

 

[svirk]

Scripture is pretty clear on this.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/5-39-compare.html

Notice he didn't say "only resist if there are children involved or to come to the aid of others."

The scripture can be hard to swallow if you're looking for comfort on this earth.

The scripture you refer to commanded "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" but then changed it to "turn the other cheek" because those are limited teachings meant for a specific group of people for a limited time. The Jews were a slave people without courage or strength. God sent them a teaching they needed. They would have chosen forgiveness out of fear while rejecting justice for the same reason. Even after God brought them out from Egypt they would not follow Moses into the promised land out of fear. They were "punished" with 40 years in the dessert so that a new generation could be raised. About 1400 years later the descendants of those Jews had hardened hearts. They were awaiting a warrior Messiah who would lead them in war against their rulers. These are a people who would have sought revenge over justice or mercy. They needed the teaching Jesus brought them. A teaching emphasizing mercy and forgiveness but they spit on it and rejected the Messiah. They paid the price afterwards when they followed a false messiah and were summarily booted out of Israel. Odd that to this day they are unable to connect the facts. Jesus himself said another would come to teach all that could not be taught by him. As the Jews rejected Jesus the Christians fail to recognize the one to still come was Muhammad who was given the complete teaching Jesus referred to. Muhammad taught that a man has a right for eye to eye justice but that he should find the strength to forgive. Islam encourages both justice and forgiveness and forces man to recognize and grow from the fact that the two concepts can and do go hand in hand.

"Remember that the recompense of an injury is an injury the like thereof; but whoso forgives and thereby brings about an improvement, his reward is with God. Surely, HE loves not the wrongdoers. There is no blame on those who defend themselves after they have been wronged. The blame is only on those who wrong men and transgress in the earth without justification. Such will have a grievous punishment. And he who is patient and forgives - that, surely, is a matter of high resolve." [Quran 42:40-43]

 

[WarDosAnjos]

Who? Seriously I don't know if I'm out of the loop, but I've never heard of this guy.

Kind of feels like the War Room has gone and fond a bunch of random people who have radicalized opinions and try to make an example out of everything to attack a political side as a whole. Small thinking imo

 

[Thurisaz]

What doctrine?

Taqiyya.

The one you and a pack of right wing lunatics who happen to be experts on Islamic theology interpreted on behalf of Muslims?

When they observably behave in a way consistent with said doctrine and bring terrorists to our land, that's a reasonable conclusion.

You are not merely misinformed but a dishonest bigot.

Your opinion concerning me isn't something you need to reiterate nor is it an argument of any sort. Seeing as you simply ignored any and all information demolishing your stupid and false claims I have to conclude that all you're doing here is demonizing people for the deadly sin of having more sense than you.

Tell me, little Satan, how many Westerners should die annually in Muslim invaders' hands before you would be willing to open your eyes?
1000?
10000?
A million?
All?

This is a question your sort for some reason never answer.

 

[Thurisaz]

The scripture you refer to commanded "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" but then changed it to "turn the other cheek" because those are limited teachings meant for a specific group of people for a limited time.

I'd appreciate if you stopped blaspheming. @spamking already corrected you on this. Christianity is not a suicide pact.

 

[svirk]

Taqiyya.

When they observably behave in a way consistent with said doctrine and bring terrorists to our land, that's a reasonable conclusion.

You have invented a boogeyman to be afraid of. You have invented something to hate. "They", must keep you at night. "The Terrorists", might be hiding under your bed tonight.

[QUOTE}Your opinion concerning me isn't something you need to reiterate nor is it an argument of any sort. Seeing as you simply ignored any and all information demolishing your stupid and false claims I have to conclude that all you're doing here is demonizing people for the deadly sin of having more sense than you.

Tell me, little Satan, how many Westerners should die annually in Muslim invaders' hands before you would be willing to open your eyes?
1000?
10000?
A million?
All?
[/QUOTE]

Come now ignorant one. There are no Muslim invaders in any Western nation. You are completely confused and so brainwashed you believe the opposite of the truth. No wonder men like Trump now lead us. The last 500 years has been, for the most part, Westerners invading non-Western nations, not the other way around. Odd that you are still the one doing the whining about invaders. No majority Muslim nation has attacked, expressed any desire to attack or has any capacity to attack America. America, as a nation, murdered 1 million Iraqis and left millions more to suffer the consequences of all the death and destruction they brought. Pure evil by any standard. Does any American have a good justification for the American evil conducted in Vietnam? 3 million murdered by America. The use of chemical weapons that are still wreaking havoc to this day? Muslims as a group cannot even begin to compete with that.

 

[King of Fists]

It is . . . and specific to personal revenge/retaliation . . . and holding on to the desire to get back at someone who has wronged you instead of forgiving them.



Especially if you're just going to completely ignore what I said about retaliation and revenge . . . which is also a very common interpretation of that particular scripture. The reason He doesn't specifically mention children is due to the very narrow scope of the application . . . . to individual revenge and retaliation.

Take a look at how Martin Luther and John Calvin interpret/explain the verse . . .

You just dont like what the verse says, so you're limiting it to being applicable to circumstances of your own choosing. I can read what's in the bible, so can you. Jesus didn't say it's ok to defend yourself under X circumstances but not under Y.

This is equivalent to saying "Jesus said love your neighbor, but criminal immigrants dont live next to me. Therefore I dont need to love them."

 

[King of Fists]

The scripture you refer to commanded "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" but then changed it to "turn the other cheek" because those are limited teachings meant for a specific group of people for a limited time. The Jews were a slave people without courage or strength. God sent them a teaching they needed. They would have chosen forgiveness out of fear while rejecting justice for the same reason. Even after God brought them out from Egypt they would not follow Moses into the promised land out of fear. They were "punished" with 40 years in the dessert so that a new generation could be raised. About 1400 years later the descendants of those Jews had hardened hearts. They were awaiting a warrior Messiah who would lead them in war against their rulers. These are a people who would have sought revenge over justice or mercy. They needed the teaching Jesus brought them. A teaching emphasizing mercy and forgiveness but they spit on it and rejected the Messiah. They paid the price afterwards when they followed a false messiah and were summarily booted out of Israel. Odd that to this day they are unable to connect the facts. Jesus himself said another would come to teach all that could not be taught by him. As the Jews rejected Jesus the Christians fail to recognize the one to still come was Muhammad who was given the complete teaching Jesus referred to. Muhammad taught that a man has a right for eye to eye justice but that he should find the strength to forgive. Islam encourages both justice and forgiveness and forces man to recognize and grow from the fact that the two concepts can and do go hand in hand.

"Remember that the recompense of an injury is an injury the like thereof; but whoso forgives and thereby brings about an improvement, his reward is with God. Surely, HE loves not the wrongdoers. There is no blame on those who defend themselves after they have been wronged. The blame is only on those who wrong men and transgress in the earth without justification. Such will have a grievous punishment. And he who is patient and forgives - that, surely, is a matter of high resolve." [Quran 42:40-43]

Yes, please tell us all what Jesus "meant" to say. I'm sure your echo chamber buddies will agree with you.

 

[spamking]

You just dont like what the verse says, so you're limiting it to being applicable to circumstances of your own choosing. I can read what's in the bible, so can you. Jesus didn't say it's ok to defend yourself under X circumstances but not under Y.

This is equivalent to saying "Jesus said love your neighbor, but criminal immigrants dont live next to me. Therefore I dont need to love them."

And you're greatly expanding what is actually meant by the verse to be applicable to circumstances of your own choosing as well . . . again, Jesus didn't reference self-defense at all in this verse because that's not what this is about at all.

 

[djacobox372]

Uhh... WTF do you think the last nearly 20 years of war in the middle east is about?

Protecting Muslims or protecting Christians?

 

[King of Fists]

And you're greatly expanding what is actually meant by the verse to be applicable to circumstances of your own choosing as well . . . again, Jesus didn't reference self-defense at all in this verse because that's not what this is about at all.

Jesus: "Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on one cheek, offer him the other as well"

You: "That has nothing to do with self-defense, Jesus didn't say 'self defense'"

K thx bai. Let me know when u want a real discussion.