What's this takedown?

grubburg2

grubburg2

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from the 2 on 1 at 1.29?



anyone know any technique breakdowns of it? any specific name for it? Anyone known for using it a lot?
 
damn that was slick, never seen that before
 
A fireman's Carry with a trip/hook added. If he had committed to the outside step dump he would have gotten it
 
It kinda looks like a 2 on 1 situation, but the more i watch it, i think it's a front headlock counter. I think he postures up to momentarily make the opponent light on their outside leg, then sweeps it.
 
grubburg2 said:
Interesting. I observed more a footsweep motion?
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The ones we call 'trips' are more sweepy, and the ones we call 'sweeps' are more trippy.

On a foot sweep, the way some guys really kick the other in the shin can be deceiving; the most important part of the mechanism is pulling/pushing the guy off balance, the foot is there basically to just block his leg from sticking out and getting it under his center of gravity again.

Since Gary had the two on one, he basically just trusted his grip to be strong enough to hold on if he just collapsed his weight to drag the other guy down
 
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Laats drop/ Laats Kata Guruma, after Johan Laats who popularised it in Judo.

 
Its a kata guruma attempt that doesnt really worked out.
 
RJ Green said:
what color is this dress?
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Its always fun having another round of terminology scrabble.

But for real, I don't get where people are seeing a fireman's carry at all; his left hand never comes off the 2 on 1 to shoot down for their thigh. Sure, he's doing a similar sort of 'ducking under' motion, but then a lot of takedowns involve a ducking under motion.
 
I'd say this is failed sasae tsurikomi ashi.
 
GeneralDisarray said:
This is not Yoko Otoshi?
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Yoko Otoshi does not use foot sweep.

This is sasae tsurikomi ashi with fall, like Colton Brown on this picture:

Colton-Brown-300x300.jpg
 
rmongler said:
Its always fun having another round of terminology scrabble.

But for real, I don't get where people are seeing a fireman's carry at all; his left hand never comes off the 2 on 1 to shoot down for their thigh. Sure, he's doing a similar sort of 'ducking under' motion, but then a lot of takedowns involve a ducking under motion.
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You are getting caught up in the fact he's not "grabbing the leg". THE MOST important part of a fireman's carry is the arm and pulling down on the arm. A fireman's carry, both inside step and outside step, was my number one offensive score in high school and college. And my middle and high school team practiced them every day. I would say more than half of the ones I finished in live or in matches over the course of 12 years I didn't even need to touch the leg.

In fact my number one way for a long time was what Tonon did, just to the other side. Russian 2-on-1 and going for the fireman's pulling the arm hard and committing to going to your hip on the side of the Russian to get torque, I even hit the trip occasionally. If Tonon had committed more and knew which way to roll his head out, and not let go of the arm he would have landed in side control

Not trying to be snippy or a technique snob, I've just hit this exact takedown literally thousands of times and had coaches who had been teaching and having success with it for years.

Actually, my team is at wrestling camp right now. And me and a couple coaches were talking about that the two techniques that you see the most commonly taught improperly and most misunderstood are fireman's carries and head in the holes
 
kind of a sit through with a leg sweep for good measure.
 
jack36767 said:
You are getting caught up in the fact he's not "grabbing the leg". THE MOST important part of a fireman's carry is the arm and pulling down on the arm. A fireman's carry, both inside step and outside step, was my number one offensive score in high school and college. And my middle and high school team practiced them every day. I would say more than half of the ones I finished in live or in matches over the course of 12 years I didn't even need to touch the leg.

In fact my number one way for a long time was what Tonon did, just to the other side. Russian 2-on-1 and going for the fireman's pulling the arm hard and committing to going to your hip on the side of the Russian to get torque, I even hit the trip occasionally. If Tonon had committed more and knew which way to roll his head out, and not let go of the arm he would have landed in side control

Not trying to be snippy or a technique snob, I've just hit this exact takedown literally thousands of times and had coaches who had been teaching and having success with it for years.

Actually, my team is at wrestling camp right now. And me and a couple coaches were talking about that the two techniques that you see the most commonly taught improperly and most misunderstood are fireman's carries and head in the holes
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Aint saying 'taint a good take down friend, just saying, if you asked someone to think of a 'firemans', then showed them this, the pictures probably wouldn't match.

Its like, someone heading up to the triple weave general and asking: 'what's the difference between harai-goshi and o-soto-gari? They're both hip throws right?'

I suppose what I'm really saying is, is there enough of a difference to merit different names? I think in the context of submission wrestling, if doing it one way lands you, as you say, in side control, and the other way can get you stuck in the crucifix, I feel like I'd lean more to yes.

I mean, Laats drop is a pretty cool name innit? Ah but I guess there's some overlap there too, maybe Laats carry instead...
 
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rmongler said:
Aint saying 'taint a good take down friend, just saying, if you asked someone to think of a 'firemans', then showed them this, the pictures probably wouldn't match.

Its like, someone heading up to the triple weave general and asking: 'what's the difference between harai-goshi and o-soto-gari? They're both hip throws right?'

I suppose what I'm really saying is, is there enough of a difference to merit different names? I think in the context of submission wrestling, if doing it one way lands you, as you say, in side control, and the other way can get you stuck in the crucifix, I feel like I'd lean more to yes.

I mean, Laats drop is a pretty cool name innit? Ah but I guess there's some overlap there too, maybe Laats carry instead...
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I wasn't just saying it's a good takedown.. I was establishing why I know it's a fireman's carry.. or variation of a fireman's carry if you want to get pedantic..

The way Tonon hit was a fireman's carry and the little trip is what threw everybody off.

I know that everyone is going to go to Kolat online and say it doesn't look exactly like it. But I'm telling you its a variation on a fireman's carry. It's not a lat drop. He's pulling the arm down like.. shocking a fireman's.. where everyone is getting in a hissy tizzy about is the going to the hip and trip. The going to the hip is called a barrel roll. But still is just another version of a fireman's carry.

The mechanics of the move and what make it work are what matters most..

So you can argue with me all day or whatever.. but I have literally years and thousands of reps using every variation of a fireman's carry because I got obsessed with it. And I'm more than happy to get the opinion of the numerous high school and college coaches at camp here with me..
 
jack36767 said:
I wasn't just saying it's a good takedown.. I was establishing why I know it's a fireman's carry.. or variation of a fireman's carry if you want to get pedantic..

The way Tonon hit was a fireman's carry and the little trip is what threw everybody off.

I know that everyone is going to go to Kolat online and say it doesn't look exactly like it. But I'm telling you its a variation on a fireman's carry. It's not a lat drop. He's pulling the arm down like.. shocking a fireman's.. where everyone is getting in a hissy tizzy about is the going to the hip and trip. The going to the hip is called a barrel roll. But still is just another version of a fireman's carry.

The mechanics of the move and what make it work are what matters most..

So you can argue with me all day or whatever.. but I have literally years and thousands of reps using every variation of a fireman's carry because I got obsessed with it. And I'm more than happy to get the opinion of the numerous high school and college coaches at camp here with me..
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how the heck do you hit a fireman without grabbing the leg? you know any matches where i can see a video of it?
 
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