what's the best way to build up core strength?

[Universal]

Jerrylundergard, I would be greatful if you could please answer to the following: what kinda numbers do you put up in those lifts, how long have you been training and what's your bodyweight?

 

[HULKAMANIA]

Guys, I think arguing with this fellow will be a lost cause. That's just my assessment. The funny thing is, though, that he's so quick to call all these other folks "pussies," but he's the one panicked over the thought of a little lactic acid buildup in his muscles.

 

[jerrylundergard]

im not jakc. i just personally find it amusing to go into a gym and blow the doors off it and have people staring than walk out after 30 minutes. i know i sound like a jerk saying this but its the truth. overtraining is a mysterious line that no beginer will understand and many top end fellas are so obssesed they cant help it. concentrating solely on these three excercies will get the beginer and mid range guys strong fast without the effects of overtraining. then when their comfortable with their strength and or top out they can add assistance excercises and see how it works for them. ive been training for 10 years. im 220 pounds now bench 325 squat and deadlift 400. im not currently in beef mode and have been way bigger and done much more. im currently in maintance mode as i travel alot so high end has been dificult for the last several years. ive never taken roids. i just know this system works and 2-5 pounds a week adds up fast in these core excercises. build the core and avoid overtraining.

 

[Urban]

is acid build up and the fact that muscles canibalize with overtraining suedo science?

First... it's catabolize. Second, nobody is going to argue that overtraining isn't bad for you. But doing more than three lifts per week isn't going to make you overtrain by itself.

when i say assistance lifts will have a negative effect on overall strength i mean that when assistance lifts ie, curls presses and such are performed after compound ones the strength benifits of the compound lifts will be diminished.

Source?

my logic behind this is that the body can only handel so much punishment even with the use of roids and additional assistance lifts cuts into time that could have been spent doing more sets of the compound lift or resting.

even if you DO spend 40 minutes on one lift in the gym, another 20 minutes doing assistance lifts is not going to make you lose all your gains. Hormonally you're primed to workout for an hour, and rather than spend all your time on a key lift, you're probably better off devoting some time to putting additional volume on weak points.

now if one has their heart set on arm curls and such they ought to perform these lifts on off days next to the dudes that paint their nails while doing leg extensions. i personally believe that when any of these assistance lifts are being performed they are messing with intertwined core muscles and will lead to overtraining.

again you mention curls. Curls are a shitty assistance exercise and even if you curled all day it's not going to detract from your deadlift recovery ability. What about REAL assistance exercises like bent over rows, romanian deadlifts, front squats, box squats, incline bench, etc. true they're more demanding but they're also more specific, causing the development of a more efficient Central nervous system and ultimately more strength.

 

[fat_wilhelm]

ive been training for 10 years. im 220 pounds now bench 325 squat and deadlift 400. im not currently in beef mode and have been way bigger and done much more.

jerry, i hate to let you down, but for your body weight, your numbers are pretty freaking crappy, considering you've been training for ten years and came on here talking about how strong you are. what kind of gym do you train in where these lifts blow the doors off and trigger looks of admiration from other members? Vic Tanney, perhaps? Or is it Fitness USA?

Yes, I know, you're not in "beef" mode and have been WAY stronger and done WAY more in the past. Haven't we all? I cleaned and pressed an Oldsmobile once, but it wasn't in a meet, so I didn't count it.

EDIT: I should make sure you're not seven feet tall. Then, a 220 body weight would actually be damn skinny and those lifts would look OK. Well, are ya? Are ya seven feet tall?

 

[jerrylundergard]

and what method do you propose to increase core strength fats? the methods and logic for the methods i described were clear 3 lifts look to increase strength 2-5 pounds each week. avoid any other types of assistance lifting because it could negatively effect next weeks lift by even a half of a pound. go straight home eat protein and relax. this will help newbs and intermediates avoid overtraining which is the most common mistake along with underemphasis on the core lifts. afterall the guy who started this thread asked for assistance on getting a stronger core and most newbs asking these kind of questions get all sorts of answers and in the end they overtrain. for those that want to do some assistance training urban suggested 20 min of assistance training after core lifts this may be optimal for some but in my case compound core only with no assistance training worked best.

 

[OpethDrums]

jerry, i hate to let you down, but for your body weight, your numbers are pretty freaking crappy, considering you've been training for ten years and came on here talking about how strong you are. what kind of gym do you train in where these lifts blow the doors off and trigger looks of admiration from other members? Vic Tanney, perhaps? Or is it Fitness USA?

Yes, I know, you're not in "beef" mode and have been WAY stronger and done WAY more in the past. Haven't we all? I cleaned and pressed an Oldsmobile once, but it wasn't in a meet, so I didn't count it.

EDIT: I should make sure you're not seven feet tall. Then, a 220 body weight would actually be damn skinny and those lifts would look OK. Well, are ya? Are ya seven feet tall?

:icon_lol:

 

[fat_wilhelm]

and what method do you propose to increase core strength fats? the methods and logic for the methods i described were clear 3 lifts look to increase strength 2-5 pounds each week. avoid any other types of assistance lifting because it could negatively effect next weeks lift by even a half of a pound. go straight home eat protein and relax. this will help newbs and intermediates avoid overtraining which is the most common mistake along with underemphasis on the core lifts. afterall the guy who started this thread asked for assistance on getting a stronger core and most newbs asking these kind of questions get all sorts of answers and in the end they overtrain. for those that want to do some assistance training urban suggested 20 min of assistance training after core lifts this may be optimal for some but in my case compound core only with no assistance training worked best.

What method? The method that says to train core directly, as well, and not just limit yourself to minimal training when your body can probably handle much more. Granted, if you can ONLY find time to do a couple excercises a week, then I'd probably go w/ deadlifts and squats, as Urban suggested early on, because they're the most compound of movements that will hit as much of your body as possible.

However, your post was a recommendation for doing three lifts, only, for max increase in OVERALL body strength. This, I do not agree with. Why did you happen to choose those three lifts, first of all? Squats and Deadlifts I could certainly agree with, but many people believe that overhead presses are as benificial (if not moreso) as bench presses for true functional strength. Someone else may get more out of a front squat than a back squat. It just seems odd that your routine conveniently uses the three lifts used in powerlifting competition, which, in turn, leads me to believe that you haven't really given it much thought.

Your argument that any assistance movements will cut into next week's numbers doesn't make sense to me because you rarely find someone who is looking to increase the weight of their three main lifts on a weekly basis as their benchmark for strength. A majority of people train in an effort to test themselves every so often and use core lifts and assisance lifts to get there. If they find themselves to be a bit weak one day because of an extra heavy session the previous workout, then so be it. It's all in an effort to look at the bigger picture.

Most here want a good balance of pure functional strength, not strength that will enable them to excel in powerlifting. Even Carnal, though, does a great deal more in training than just the three meet lifts and I'm certainly not going to argue w/ a 635 lb. deadlift. (Sorry, Carnal, if I'm a little off on that #... going from memory).

If you feel instant muscle recovery is of the utmost importance, then buy a protein shake after you do your core lifts, guzzle it, and continue on.

 

[jerrylundergard]

i dont call extremely focused and intense compound training minimal training. you must know that injury is the biggest concern when performing these lifts. the problem here with additional assistance excercises is the greater probobality of overtraining and its consequence is injury. injury will obviously have a neg. impact on strength therefore its better to undertrain a bit than to overtrain a bit. yes i chose the same lifts that powerlifters use cause frankly i believe their on to something. whats the world record max bench at these days 800? shoulder press aint anywhere near that. obviously the greater load equals greater strength benefit. my 2-5 pound increase is a rough guideline of what to expect. i dont advise maxing everyweek although i knew folks that did but if you do say 225 3 times this week try to do 228 3 times next week. to me functional strength is exactly the product of powerlifting so i dont get you there? instant muscle recovery is important but whats of utmost importance is the avoidal of overtraining and injury and is why i advocate 3 compound lifts only. anyhow i enjoyed this little sunday afternoon debate. rock on

 

[HULKAMANIA]

Let's see here.

You've been lifting for ten years? Your deadlift is at 400?

For argument's sake, we'll assume your deadlift started at 150. I think any reasonably healthy male can lift that from the floor. That means in the intervening 10 years you've posted a 250 pound increase on that lift.

Now, I'm no math major, but bear with me. Let's say you try to get an extra 2.5 pounds on the bar every session. That means it will take 100 weeks for you to increase 250 pounds on a lift, assuming you hit your goal every time. However, you've been at this for 520 weeks.

So... what can we conclude?

Using your system of "extremely focused and intense compound training," one can reasonably expect to see a gain of 2.5 pounds every fifth week or so. Or maybe you get all your gains right off the bat and then you spend the next nine years mindlessly adhering to your awesome system despite hitting a plateau the size of Greenland and so it only looks like 2.5 pounds per 35 days on paper. Or maybe you only get gains when you enter the mythical "beef mode." I don't know.

All in all your training methodology sounds silly, unchallenging, and ineffectual; the results that this methodology has given you over the last ten years are frankly unimpressive; and your "scientific" reasons why the damn thing works are uncited, sketchy, and shallow. I think I'll stick with my assistance lifts, thank you.

 

[Universal]

Jerry, Think about what you're saying.
What's good for one person isn't always good for another. We're all made differently with different strengths and weaknesses, different goals, different needs, different genes.
What one must do to attain certain results are highly deppendent on several variables.
I understand exactly where you're comming from with this concept but don't over-simplify your explaination cause it make you come off as narrow minded.
Anyways, different strokes for different folkes.

 

[PariahCarey]

i dont call extremely focused and intense compound training minimal training. you must know that injury is the biggest concern when performing these lifts. the problem here with additional assistance excercises is the greater probobality of overtraining and its consequence is injury. injury will obviously have a neg. impact on strength therefore its better to undertrain a bit than to overtrain a bit. yes i chose the same lifts that powerlifters use cause frankly i believe their on to something. whats the world record max bench at these days 800? shoulder press aint anywhere near that. obviously the greater load equals greater strength benefit. my 2-5 pound increase is a rough guideline of what to expect. i dont advise maxing everyweek although i knew folks that did but if you do say 225 3 times this week try to do 228 3 times next week. to me functional strength is exactly the product of powerlifting so i dont get you there? instant muscle recovery is important but whats of utmost importance is the avoidal of overtraining and injury and is why i advocate 3 compound lifts only. anyhow i enjoyed this little sunday afternoon debate. rock on

I now renounce everything i said about grammar before. Ever hear of a C-A-P-I-T-A-L letter before a sentence or is this stream of consciousness posting day.

 

[HULKAMANIA]

Hahaha

Or at least a paragraph break?

Something to make it less of a chore to read?

 

[jerrylundergard]

this things really been argued to death and then some. its almost a nervous anger i detect here. maybe ignorance makes people mad cause they wonder fuck i better not of been doing all this work to find out theres a better faster and safer way to do it so ill argue with this dude in an attempt to assure my self what ive been up tos been worth it. ive been training for 10 years sometimes steady and obviously most of the time not. im happy with my current numbers and am no longer looking to increase strength. however if anyone wants to continue to argue that this system sucks for strength gain than i suggest they dig a deep hole shat into it and begin yelling into it because thats about the logic of it.

 

[HULKAMANIA]

Pariah, you need to employ your mad deconstruction skills here and tell us whether jerry and jack are indeed the same person.

 

[jerrylundergard]

isnt jack the guy that was talking about the medicine ball? no wait he mentioned toe and glute ham raises as a prefered method for core strength building.... def not me bro.

 

[datadog]

this things really been argued to death and then some. its almost a nervous anger i detect here. maybe ignorance makes people mad cause they wonder fuck i better not of been doing all this work to find out theres a better faster and safer way to do it so ill argue with this dude in an attempt to assure my self what ive been up tos been worth it. ive been training for 10 years sometimes steady and obviously most of the time not. im happy with my current numbers and am no longer looking to increase strength. however if anyone wants to continue to argue that this system sucks for strength gain than i suggest they dig a deep hole shat into it and begin yelling into it because thats about the logic of it.

The problem isn't that you expressed that you have a system and that it works for you, then problem is that you've latched into the belief that doing things other ways are wrong. Let me tell you, if I could walk into the gym and do 20 minutes of working out three times a week and still get the results I want then I'd be shouting "F The Gym" too. But it doesn't fly for most people. I can see my bench drop if I skip dips, my squats drop.. oh yeah, I suck at squats.

Anywise what I'm saying is that you are arguing against the best kind of science, empirical evidence. Some of the folks in here are very strong, others are very knowlegable about weight lifting, and one or two may be both (lol). From your posts you are saying that they are wrong and that their methods do not work. Take a normal guy and have them train the way these folks do for 3 years and they damn well better be topping your numbers that you gained in ten. It's not to say that your way is wrong, only you can set the pace of your own goals. However you shouldn't be telling Hulk and others that their methods don't work because that's just not true.

 

[Ian Coe]

On topic:
I did 3 sets of 5 ab roll outs yesterday, on the balls of my feet, from a press up position, chest touching for a second then back up to starting position.

That is tough. The last few reps were touch and go if I would just slump into the ground. At the time my abs felt strained, now they are pretty damn sore.

How do people progress with the ab roll outs? Rep inrease, weight increase (via extra weight strapped to you or like urban suggested with the elastic cord)?

 

[bacon]

Damn, this thread got ugly!

Question for JackC and Jerry: Does posting nonsensical BS typed at a 3rd grade reading level improve core strength?

Reading it sure does. I haven't laughed that hard since the "pic of me and ma boys up in jersey" thread started. Keep up the good work...

 

[JACKC]

jerry,you should have left me out of it.First off, your method of training, at best is shitty.Two i can bench your max deadlift for reps.Thrid if you go back and look at the exercises i listed to develope core strengh they are use by most top trainers. Last but not least i am not jerry,i would never,i mean never post those lifts if they where mine.