What's happening at JACKSONTWINK?

[Kyle Stephens]

It caused mostly by Winkeljohn's greed mixed with his incompetence as a trainer. Jackson going his own way ain't helping either.
The gym is painfully behind modern MMA and everyone who could find better place to train left.

 

[Tylerlikesmma]

"Holms" lol.

 

[Coconutwater]

That’s the way it goes - if someone told you 15 years ago that Miletich Fighting Systems will be gone without a trace, you would be shocked.

Lions Den is a shadow of itself...
Chute Boxe ......
Brazilian Top Team....

I know GSP is partially retired but is TriStar even a thing anymore?

 

[NicholasJBasile]

Drama seems to have made its presence a bit here and there with Wink, not sure how much of that has to do with anything -- I don't know him personally, but I don't believe that he comes across too great when I hear him in interviews. My thoughts aren't very significant as I have no correlation with their camp.

 

[Stranger Come Knocking]

More like JacksonStink!

 

[KID Yamamoto]

Everyone relevant at their gym seemed to be on something outside of lanky ass Condit who had his own crew anyway.

 

[StanClarker]

Why was he screaming the whole time?

Oh come on now.

And it's Submission Radio's article.

 

[StanClarker]

Been saying for awhile that that camp is a tad bit overrated.

I got banned somewhere's for saying that when it wasn't fashionable. That's rich.

They're only claim right now is Jon Jones but lets be honest, he would've been successful no matter what camp he trained at and arguably would've gotten into less trouble had he gone elsewhere but that's besides the point.

They've done a good job with Jon. Is kinda a can\t miss.

Most of their grapplers are pretty good so I won't judge them but just about all of their strikers have been trained in the Winkeljohn style of extensive teeps and running straight onto the lead uppercut i.e. Holm, Condit and Diego.

TBF, it's a chicken 'n egg syndrome.

Guys and girls like Cowboy, Cub and Waterson have even resorted to opening up their own training spots or going elsewhere to expand upon their striking.

My byline? But really the most advanced MMA competitors make changes, look for improvements in their training regimen. Tyron Woodley should be getting more credit for that, instead of posting his collapse against Rory MacDonald who was an absolute killer @ that time.

I called Brandon Gibson the potential saving grace of that camp but as far as I know he's not a full time trainer so there's only so much you can do there.

Totally uninspiring. Means well.

 

[Mondo Freaks]

Its still one of the best gyms in MMA.

 

[TriangleMonkey]

Pretty much. JW has always been one of the one of the best camps, but their biggest selling point in the beginning was that they didn't charge fighters to train there, and provided room and board.

Doing that allowed them to draw the attention of talented, popular fighters, which caused regular gym membership sales to increase.

A strong stable of talented, popular fighters and a good monthly income; a win-win for Jackson's.

Seasons one and two of TUF were huge for Jackson's MMA. Diego was a weird ass dude, he was really good, and he won the contract; albeit at middleweight vs lightweight Florian. He would've beat an any weight Florian.

Evans and Jardine drew more attention for Jackson's. Evans, a natural middleweight, pissed off Matt Hughes, and won the heavyweight contract against Imes, a guy tree times his size, and won a UFC title.

Jardine was a goofy, sloppy brawler that didn't know how to have a boring fight. Who wouldn't want to hang out with the dean?

Shout out to Leonard Garcia.

Condit and Cerrone were two of the most popular and talented fighters in WEC. Cerrone fighting often (go figure), being a lightweight title challenger, and Condit as their final welterweight champ. Condit then won the interim UFC title to challenge for GSP's title.

Cerrone went on to fight on damn near every UFC card to date.

It has always been bittersweet to me that they were both at Jackson's. We were all very much robbed of Condit vs Cerrone.

Jon Jones.

Holm drew more women to the gym, probably some guys too, and demolished the unbeatable Rousey to win a UFC title.

Enter JacksonWink, the business. Moving to a much larger facility, the famed gym started charging fighters to train, though the names mentioned above remained uncharged.

Over time, the majority of the nonpaying veterans were losing the attention of the coaches, as most of their time shifted to the paying fighters. More money, more problems. Larger facility, larger expenses.

Fighters that were loyal to Jackson and Wink for more than a decade, who brought an enormous amount of attention to the gym, were being brushed to the side in favor of the new guys. Largely because the new guys are paying for their attention, and paying the bills.

Over the last few years, many of the original Jackson fighters have parted ways with JacksonWink.

One of the few on here that understand the dynamics of old Jack/Wink vs new Jack/Wink. You hit it on the nose with the new facility, higher bills, and needing to focus attention on paying students. Everybody so quick to dismiss/discredit the coaches but this is reality. With the old model gym, it only goes so far, you run a “fight gym” where nobody that trains has a job and your gym never grows and as a coach you never make any steady money and the gym barely pays for itself.

The model of the new gym is much like every damn gym in America, they have paying students on contracts for high monthly rates. This guarantees you make your lease payments on time. Yea you can accommodate some accomplished fighters but you NEED to take care of the regular paying students. I think that Cerrone and the others that are crying were just too used the way they were treated when it was just a “fight gym” in a crappy part of Albuquerque.

There was a recent interview with Aaron Pico who recently switched camps to Jack/Wink after suffering some embarrassing defeats and he had nothing but good things to say about the program and that the ones who went vocal and complained, were not showing to regular training times and just sucking it up and train. They sound a little entitled to me.

Look at MM for example. Dude trains under a top trainer in Hume, out of a tiny strip mall dojo, along side “regular” paying students, and does just fine winning and defending the UFC crown. He isnt saying he is too good to train with a regular student on the same mats at the same time. He is a true martial artist.

 

[StanClarker]

Come on mann. You can't compare Miletich fighting system to JACKSONWINK.

JACKSONWINK camp is MMA itself! the most legendary camp in MMA history 80% of all MMA legends came thru that camp. Jacksonwink will definitely be around for the next decade or 2 while not as influential as before but still around and have some sort of presence

Can't deny Jackson / Winklejohn was a leader in MMA training during the early heyday.

The martial question, however, was a leader in what? Gaido jutsu!

 

[StanClarker]

The model of the new gym is much like every damn gym in America, they have paying students on contracts for high monthly rates. This guarantees you make your lease payments on time. Yea you can accommodate some accomplished fighters but you NEED to take care of the regular paying students. I think that Cerrone and the others that are crying were just too used the way they were treated when it was just a “fight gym” in a crappy part of Albuquerque.

You mean McDojo a la MMA?

 

[StanClarker]

Its still one of the best gyms in MMA.

History
In 1992, he founded his own martial art, Gaidojutsu, which combines wrestling with basic judo locks. He then developed his art by adding techniques from other styles such as Brazilian Jujitsu and Kickboxing. His school officially turned into an MMA school in 2000.

Sherdog.com reports that fighters from Jackson's camp have a win percentage of 81%. [1] Other notable fighters include UFC veteran Keith Jardine, former UFC Light Heavyweight Champion Rashad Evans, former WEC Welterweight Champion Carlos Condit, former King of Pancrase Nate Marquardt, light heavyweight prospect Jon Jones, undefeated UFC heavyweight title contender Shane Carwin and former UFC Heavyweight Champion Andrei Arlovski.[2]

Greg Jackson won two World MMA Awards for "Best Coach" and "Best Gym" in 2009.[3] Greg Jackson trained "The Crocodile Hunter" Steve Irwin for several years and the two became good friends. Jackson attended Irwin's funeral in Australia.

Courtesy of the Full Wiki

 

[TriangleMonkey]

You mean McDojo a la MMA?

Show me a martial arts gym that doesnt claim they teach mma, they all use that term to lure in the contracts. Its always, karate, kickboxing, jiu-jitsu, mma, LoL.

So yes, McDojo a la’ MMA and if your lucky, a pro fighter might actually train there.....but most likely no.

 

[StanClarker]

There was a recent interview with Aaron Pico who recently switched camps to Jack/Wink after suffering some embarrassing defeats and he had nothing but good things to say about the program and that the ones who went vocal and complained, were not showing to regular training times and just sucking it up and train. They sound a little entitled to me.

The question is where does one go? Is it realistic for aspiring MMA competitors to spend 20 years like Machida studying Shotokan karate (I'll answer that one, NO.)?

Jackson / Wink should be on everyone's list. It's the list where the difficulty lies.

 

[west42]

Last I remember he was promoting cheap one on one training sessions with Holly I think?

For an extra $30 she doesn't wear a bra, and for another $50 they start grappling in the north south position.

 

[StanClarker]

Show me a martial arts gym that doesnt claim they teach mma, they all use that term to lure in the contracts. Its always, karate, kickboxing, jiu-jitsu, mma, LoL.

Exactly the conclusion I came to looking @ MMA camps in my town. It's too much like a gym workout with assorted martial arts thrown in.

So yes, McDojo a la’ MMA and if your lucky, a pro fighter might actually train there.....but most likely no.

The worth, one worth of the traditional martial arts (or a dedicated wrestling camp like high school even), is to remind practitioners of the expanse of what they are trying to learn.

There's full blown karate videos on YT of one, two hours a & more long,,, you get 10-15 minutes into them and your mind goes 'holly sh_t.'

 

[TriangleMonkey]

The question is where does one go? Is it realistic for aspiring MMA competitors to spend 20 years like Machida studying Shotokan karate (I'll answer that one, NO.)?

Jackson / Wink should be on everyone's list. It's the list where the difficulty lies.

Aspiring fighters should go where there is an atmosphere they feel good in and a place with great training partners. Seeking the perfect coach is laughable as they do NOT carry a pouch of magic sprinkles to instill all there knowledge upon you. Its up to you and how much you put into your progress.

 

[PlayswellwithLawnDarts]

Cause of Aliens

 

[StanClarker]

Aspiring fighters should go where there is an atmosphere they feel good in and a place with great training partners. Seeking the perfect coach is laughable as they do NOT carry a pouch of magic sprinkles to instill all there knowledge upon you. Its up to you and how much you put into your progress.