Regimen What would be a routine for Kickboxing / MMA ?

[ROcknrollracing]

When have I ever said I was smarter than every coach in the sport? Why because I said you require a basic level of technique to be successful ? What coach disagrees with that position? If that was the case Crossfitters would be the ultimate MMA athletes.

Even the people that get exposed for lacking a skill set (usually wrestling) have a high level of technical skill somewhere else when they cross over. They are still sparring, learning technical skills and what to do in those situations. They just don't always execute it against a higher skilled athlete. They aren't hitting the big 3 after watching some Youtuber say how to throw a punch for their fight camps...

Maybe because fighting isn't wrestling or karate or boxing or BJJ or Muay Thai etc but maybe its one thing?

 

[ROcknrollracing]

When have I ever said I was smarter than every coach in the sport? Why because I said you require a basic level of technique to be successful ? What coach disagrees with that position? If that was the case Crossfitters would be the ultimate MMA athletes.

Even the people that get exposed for lacking a skill set (usually wrestling) have a high level of technical skill somewhere else when they cross over. They are still sparring, learning technical skills and what to do in those situations. They just don't always execute it against a higher skilled athlete. They aren't hitting the big 3 after watching some Youtuber say how to throw a punch for their fight camps...

Where do you think the information for these YouTubers and chat GPT come from? Thin air?

 

[maximus__]

Maybe because fighting isn't wrestling or karate or boxing or BJJ or Muay Thai etc but maybe its one thing?

If only we had something like 316 odd events that encompassed all those areas at some point in history... and then a sport could be born from that competition to make it so we could see those fights play out weekly with a safe ruleset to allow regular competition to pressure test those skills. Then we could see what happens when we take away those rules and see it ultimately boils down to striking, takedowns and ground and pound if a KO doesn't happen.

You can.

You can't.

Where do you think the information for these YouTubers and chat GPT come from? Thin air?

YouTube is just a platform to do what we are doing now with your own videos. I can put up Youtubers that agree with my position and ask Chat GPT a question that will say skills are more important.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

I still dont understand what you are looking for me to say to appease you. Please let me know. You believe that training technique is more important than athletic qualities and I think the opposite. I believe that if a monkey can learn how to punch in like 5 minutes that yes you can learn how to strike in 5 minutes. Applying that technique through sparring is a different story. After having sparred an insurmountable number of times I would never actually forget how to do it other than developing some disease like Alzheimers and I believe that whereas you think the opposite. I believe that training to be an athlete makes you a better fighter. I believe that athleticism and strength/size are the most important variable in any combat situation whereas you seem to think there Is some hidden inner skill set like CHI power or something. I do not believe you will become the best athlete that you can be by simply drilling and sparring whereas you think that is all that is necessary apparently.

I dont think I have anything else to add.

It is after all supposedly a free world and we can believe whatever we want.

 

[Trabaho]

Yes because all martial artist who never competed in a sanctioned fight are incapable of fighting because you said so. Got it!

Combat sports =|= Martial Arts

To me all combat sports are martial arts but I don't think that all martial artists are combatants.

 

[Trabaho]

In combat sports you gotta prove it in combat, in TMA you get it for paying the school

 

[Trabaho]

I still dont understand what you are looking for me to say to appease you. Please let me know. You believe that training technique is more important than athletic qualities and I think the opposite. I believe that if a monkey can learn how to punch in like 5 minutes that yes you can learn how to strike in 5 minutes. Applying that technique through sparring is a different story. After having sparred an insurmountable number of times

What rules sparring did you do ? In what sport. Don't say everything, I mean 90% of your sparring was ?

 

[Trabaho]

Maybe because fighting isn't wrestling or karate or boxing or BJJ or Muay Thai etc but maybe its one thing?

It is boxing muay thai wrestling and only 1% of fighters used karate cause most karate schools don't go hard and the techniques itself don't work, karate stylists will never use karate guard and punches, noone will retract their fist back to their hip, I am not stupid.

GSP, Machida, Chuck had some elements also Wonderboy. Wonderboy and Machida are Karate based. They still don't do the full karate style punches.

Feitosa, Filho, even Shilt are also from a Karate background into world class Kickboxing.

For fighting a small percentage of schools are legit. There are a lot of McDojos and commercial soft gyms. Softer gyms is fine. But most of it isn't for fighting and for MMA.

I know you are not from a hard full contact karate school. Hence you don't got a real fighting background. Imo. Maybe you are talented and cross trained. Dude you looked so bad on the bag, what was that. You are not a martial artist. A real full contact Karateka would owned that bag. Your kicks were horendous.

 

[maximus__]

I still dont understand what you are looking for me to say to appease you. Please let me know. You believe that training technique is more important than athletic qualities and I think the opposite. I believe that if a monkey can learn how to punch in like 5 minutes that yes you can learn how to strike in 5 minutes. Applying that technique through sparring is a different story. After having sparred an insurmountable number of times I would never actually forget how to do it other than developing some disease like Alzheimers and I believe that whereas you think the opposite. I believe that training to be an athlete makes you a better fighter. I believe that athleticism and strength/size are the most important variable in any combat situation whereas you seem to think there Is some hidden inner skill set like CHI power or something. I do not believe you will become the best athlete that you can be by simply drilling and sparring whereas you think that is all that is necessary apparently.

I dont think I have anything else to add.

It is after all supposedly a free world and we can believe whatever we want.

100% I believe that a certain level of skill acquisition is more important than developing athletic qualities like strength, speed and conditioning. The entire history of combat sports and fighting shows that. Soldiers throughout history drill basic skills and tactics, fighters drill basic techniques and tactics (sparring).

Does having a higher level of strength and physical conditioning hurt you in a fight? No it doesn't. I never said that. It does if that's all you have. Your position is that it's all you need. I gave you multiple chances to clarify that.

As per every single example you have shown, including "teaching" animals to fight, the end result always comes down to technical ability being more important. The Worlds Strongest man couldn't do anything to a trained fighter he outweighs by 50-100lbs just play sparring.I am not even talking about Aspinall who is a high level guy, just the regular guys in the gym he trained with. He says one guy felt "strong" when all he does is hold good head position in the clinch.

I don;t believe in Chi or not doing any strength/ conditioning work. I do more strength and conditioning than I do skill work currently. I just have countless hours of training both in sparring/in the gym and know what's important. Every single week I see the big, athletic guy come in and get wrecked by the smaller guy( and sometimes girl) that has put some time into actually pressure testing themselves to develop the ability to fight. The best part is when those guys stick around and actually become good themselves.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

In combat sports you gotta prove it in combar, in TMA you get it for paying the school

How would you know what happened in karate classes in early 80s and 90s without actually having seen broken noses and concussion as well as grappling rounds. I dont expect you to believe me nor do you have to but either way it is of no consquence to what I think.

If MMA is not a combat sport I dont know what is?

You don't have to Pay people to go to your MMA classes? like the government subsidies you to go spar with people in a gym where you could theoretically just get a bunch of buddies and spar at somebodies house for nothing? must be nice man

There was no MMA classes in the early 80s and 90s in America or at least very few as MMA was not a thing in America until the Gracies promoted BJJ In UFC.

I don't think I would have ever had an interest in martial arts had I not traveled the country competing in karate tournaments in the 90s. But alas I did so here we are.

You aren't actually proving anything to anyone and you never answered any my questions so whatever you saying is basically irrelevant to me and it doesn't make any sense to me. I am also not alone as I posted videos of actual coaches one coach who started in America and is now in china to another coach who did martial arts since the 70s.

So after 41 years of either practicing or thinking about this as a pastime I am now supposed to take you for your word.

You dont care about my black belts or my training.fighting history. I dont care about your skirmishes with your training partners or your opinion on how to train become a better fighter.

So basically we are just wasting time and typing here.

 

[Trabaho]

Strongest man in the world vs a guy who is MMA strong. Big difference. General strength and activity specific skill and strength. Who won ?

 

[Trabaho]

100% I believe that a certain level of skill acquisition is more important than developing athletic qualities like strength, speed and conditioning. The entire history of combat sports and fighting shows that. Soldiers throughout history drill basic skills and tactics, fighters drill basic techniques and tactics (sparring).

Does having a higher level of strength and physical conditioning hurt you in a fight? No it doesn't. I never said that. It does if that's all you have. Your position is that it's all you need. I gave you multiple chances to clarify that.

As per every single example you have shown, including "teaching" animals to fight, the end result always comes down to technical ability being more important. The Worlds Strongest man couldn't do anything to a trained fighter he outweighs by 50-100lbs just play sparring.I am not even talking about Aspinall who is a high level guy, just the regular guys in the gym he trained with. He says one guy felt "strong" when all he does is hold good head position in the clinch.

I don;t believe in Chi or not doing any strength/ conditioning work. I do more strength and conditioning than I do skill work currently. I just have countless hours of training both in sparring/in the gym and know what's important. Every single week I see the big, athletic guy come in and get wrecked by the smaller guy( and sometimes girl) that has put some time into actually pressure testing themselves to develop the ability to fight. The best part is when those guys stick around and actually become good themselves.

Pressure testing is a great key word, haven't properly done that in a long time. You gotta take every opportunity to spar / roll. Everywhere every time. Sparring is the only true training that can't be missed. To the point you get eager to do it with anyone and don't get nervous but excited.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

interesting you chose Pudz first mma fight but forgot to mention him KOing a Gracie who by default thinks technique is what wins fights in this day and age and all of these other guys in this video

 

[Trabaho]

How would you know what happened in karate classes in early 80s and 90s without actually having seen broken noses and concussion as well as grappling rounds. I dont expect you to believe me nor do you have to but either way it is of no consquence to what I think.

Ok so it was different. I just went of seeing todays black belts 4th degree from your master. Literaly weak kids studying it. I can not know your background or what you guys did without you telling me. I asked you a bunch of times. You gotta tell me if I'm supposed to know.

If MMA is not a combat sport I dont know what is?

It is a combat sport.

You don't have to Pay people to go to your MMA classes? like the government subsidies you to go spar with people in a gym where you could theoretically just get a bunch of buddies and spar at somebodies house for nothing? must be nice man

You mean to say if MMA isn't a pay to play aka commercial sport

There was no MMA classes in the early 80s and 90s in America or at least very few as MMA was not a thing in America until the Gracies promoted BJJ In UFC.

Yeah I was like one of the first guys from my town to ever train some mma / grappling. Boxing is a ancient sport mma is pretty new for us older closer to mid age guys.

I'm just a notorious karate hater I always do that I just hate karate. I am biased.

I don't think I would have ever had an interest in martial arts had I not traveled the country competing in karate tournaments in the 90s. But alas I did so here we are.

You aren't actually proving anything to anyone and you never answered any my questions so whatever you saying is basically irrelevant to me and it doesn't make any sense to me. I am also not alone as I posted videos of actual coaches one coach who started in America and is now in china to another coach who did martial arts since the 70s.

I think your inteligence and comprehension is lagging. How often did you have actual concussions ?

So after 41 years of either practicing or thinking about this as a pastime I am now supposed to take you for your word.

You are free to think your own thoughts. You factually underrate skills. Your combat experience is something I likely misjudged cause of communication errors.

You dont care about my black belts or my training.fighting history.

fighting history is interessting.

I dont care about your skirmishes with your training partners or your opinion on how to train become a better fighter.

So basically we are just wasting time and typing here.

Yeah it's redundant, is redundant a word ? I think we are sort of done.

I mean your opinions are extremely extreme, striking can be learned in 5 minutes and athletic ability trumps skills and technique entirely.

Ok we are finito here guys

Bit verbal sparring

Hajde

Bye



I wish more people would make threads. Sherdog is extremely slow on training content. Reddit is uninteresting. Perhaps I'll start making content or something. Online sports discussion and content and interaction has gotten boring. I make a thread. Noone else. Frode posts a clip of hitting the bag. Over. Everyone is on reddit and spamming the sherdog hw sub forum. Boring as shit.

 

[Trabaho]

interesting you chose Pudz first mma fight but forgot to mention him KOing a Gracie who by default thinks technique is what wins fights in this day and age and all of these other guys in this video

You said athleticism is > skill. Did he win vs Tim ?

You post a fight after Pudz trained skill.

See the point ?

His first fight was pure athletic ability, he learned skill later.

 

[Trabaho]

interesting you chose Pudz first mma fight but forgot to mention him KOing a Gracie who by default thinks technique is what wins fights in this day and age and all of these other guys in this video

All these guys are B level or bottom A level. He is the worlds strongest man and beat who ? Name me his wins.

A case of athleticism being overpowered is Francis Nganou. He is so athletic he became like top 3 globaly HW and almost beat a top 3 HW boxer or argubly beat him. His trait is athleticism. He is so talented. So powerful. He is the one you look for as example of athleticism smoking skill. But he also trains MMA primarly and secondarly S&C. Even though S&C is a part of MMA training. It can be confusing.

Marius is static strenght. He is not fast. Not so explosive. He is extremely strong. He can carry drag lift things. Nganou explodes with crazy power. Fast and powerful and strong.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

What rules sparring did you do ? In what sport. Don't say everything, I mean 90% of your sparring was ?

Karate tournaments were stand up events you could punch or kick to the head gear but not the face or you were penelized which happened quite frequently. In the gym when we started learning BJJ we were basically doing catch wrestling as in seeing who could submit who first submission over position. after going to the BJJ instructors I knows class a few years ago I found it extremely boring so I lost interest pretty quickly.

I personally never got concussed in sparring but I did break noses and have my nose bloodied several time.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

You said athleticism is > skill. Did he win vs Tim ?

You post a fight after Pudz trained skill.

See the point ?

His first fight was pure athletic ability, he learned skill later.

Pudz was not in condition for the fight but you haven't even referenced all of the fights afterwards including a Gracie. Conditioning is obviously a part of s/c.

 

[Trabaho]

Karate tournaments were stand up events you could punch or kick to the head gear but not the face or you were penelized which happened quite frequently. In the gym when we started learning BJJ we were basically doing catch wrestling as in seeing who could submit who first submission over position. after going to the BJJ instructors I knows class a few years ago I found it extremely boring so I lost interest pretty quickly.

I personally never got concussed in sparring but I did break noses and have my nose bloodied several time.

Karate confuses me, like there are 100 rule sets and styles.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

All these guys are B level or bottom A level. He is the worlds strongest man and beat who ? Name me his wins.

A case of athleticism being overpowered is Francis Nganou. He is so athletic he became like top 3 globaly HW and almost beat a top 3 HW boxer or argubly beat him. His trait is athleticism. He is so talented. So powerful. He is the one you look for as example of athleticism smoking skill. But he also trains MMA primarly and secondarly S&C. Even though S&C is a part of MMA training. It can be confusing.

Marius is static strenght. He is not fast. Not so explosive. He is extremely strong. He can carry drag lift things. Nganou explodes with crazy power. Fast and powerful and strong.

Yes you are absolutely correct in thinking that. Nganno is great because he is extremely explosive obviously. Jon Jones had to train strength to beat an aged Stipe even though he is a slower twitched athlete.