What will make a potential Weidman/Silva fight different than Silva/Okami?

[Kumason]

People are making the same exact argument they made for Okami they are currently making with Weidman...

-Okami had the ability to put Anderson on his back and had the type of tools on the ground that kept Sonnen from finishing the job. In effect, Okami was supposed to put Silva on his back and not only keep him there, but not get finished in the process.

This same argument is now surfacing with a potential Weidman fight. People will inevitable say that Weidman is a more skilled wrestler than Okami which is indeed true...on paper. As far as functional MMA wrestling goes, Okami has faired much better and has demonstrated more functional grappling against better fighters over a longer period of time.

So what will make the Weidman/Silva fight any different? Will Chris fair better on the feet? Nothing he has shown on the feet thus far would make me think otherwise. His fight with Maia was a sloppy kickboxing match and he didn't really look that much better than Maia on the feet. Unlike most Weidman haters, I will give him the Munoz fight, despite the fact that Munoz has never looked that impressive to me (but Munoz has won fights).

That is all. I have mostly kept quiet during Weidman/Silva debates but wanted to make my points. I think Weidman is an interesting matchup but I think he needs a legit no.1 contender bout to secure it. I wouldn't even mind seeing the fight soon. I just don't see the same thing that many other people see.

from someone who wrestled(and judo) their entire lifes I can tell your their wrestling style's are extremely different.I made a thread called something like "sonnen did it so okami can?" and I talked about okami's style and how he wouldn't be able to do anything against stilva.Silva has phenomenal upper body,trip,good single,clinch and up against the cage tdd and terrible double leg tdd.Weidman has a good style and he's also so fast with those singles I think he'd be very effective with those also.To me this is extremely easy to see the huge difference in styles and who would be much more effective on paper.No brainer weidman poses some problems with his wrestling.

 

[Mike Escobar]

Well I don't think any of those guys would be able to keep it standing in order to test him. I believe Weidman holds wins over Phil Davis and Ryan Bader in wrestling. Striking I don't think he has a chance with Silva, but Munoz was (is?) Anderson's wrestling coach and it seems fairly obvious Weidman has a big advantage over Silva in the wrestling department. Munoz was not needed as a litmus test to know that.

The questions are how would Weidman's chin hold up if/when caught, can he avoid the big shots and get takedowns, could he control him on the ground and avoid submissions, possibly getting his own?

Munoz has been outwrestled by Chris Leben, so I would argue that Munoz in terms of functional MMA wrestling has failed to transition that wrestling pedigree. There is a reason a guy like GSP can outwrestle a Josh Koscheck in MMA.

As for the chin question, I suggested above that Weidman face someone like Belcher, Belfort, or Bisping. I believe Weidman said no to Belcher and Belfort already.

 

[moreorless87]

So who actually thinks Weidman is better than Okami? So I can never take you seriously again.

Thanks for confirming that we need not take your seriously again.

 

[The Soothsayer]

As for the chin question, I suggested above that Weidman face someone like Belcher, Belfort, or Bisping. I believe Weidman said no to Belcher and Belfort already.

I love how people act like he said no like he didn't want to fight them. The UFC said he wasn't offered the fights, and he was wanting the fight with Anderson when Dana said he was next in line.

And what is Belcher or Bisping going to prove with his chin?

 

[Kumason]

But which Weidman would show up, the one that fought Munoz or the one that fought Maia? The Weidman that fought Maia wasn't very aggressive. Also, while Okami isn't aggressive, he doesn't get bullied that often (mainly because it is hard to bully someone with gorilla strength). It only took one well placed knee from Anderson to back Okami from the clinch. I think Weidman would fair better, but there is nothing that shows that he is leaps and bounds above a fighter like Okami.

depends on if he get's a weeks notice again probably lol.Weidman's finished everyone he's ever fought when he had a full camp.

 

[Zodiac**]

Okami grapple fucked Dean Lister for 3 rounds without being remotely threatened, and he also took Maias back in straight jiu-jitsu. Weidman has good grappling, but saying he is above Okami on another level is an opinion that should be scrutinized.

Every opinion is meant to be scrutinized thats why its an opinion. Dean Lister may have been a great ju jitsu player but was a terrible mma fighter and Okami laid on top of him for 3 rounds. Maia and Okami had a ju jitsu match? Ill have to find it online.

 

[NetHazard]

Thanks for confirming that we need not take your seriously again.

And I can say the same about you.

 

[EJRMAN513]

Yeah sorry, I just can't. No disrespect or anything.

No screw you, I'm so unfollowing you on Twitter.

 

[Mike Escobar]

I love how people act like he said no like he didn't want to fight them. The UFC said he wasn't offered the fights, and he was wanting the fight with Anderson when Dana said he was next in line.

And what is Belcher or Bisping going to prove with his chin?

Belcher could test his chin for sure. He has pretty good power and technique. Bisping probably wouldn't test his chin, but he would test his striking. Also, I didn't say he didn't "want" to fight them. Regardless of the offer, he was clear in interviews that he wasn't interested in fighting them. His chance at Silva definitely was a factor but look what happened, the UFC obviously didn't want that fight.

 

[The Soothsayer]

Every opinion is meant to be scrutinized thats why its an opinion. Dean Lister may have been a great ju jitsu player but was a terrible mma fighter and Okami laid on top of him for 3 rounds. Maia and Okami had a ju jitsu match? Ill have to find it online.

It shows Yushin's high level submission defense for sure. He escaped a solid triangle from Maia, and under MMA rules, he would have won the match hands down. Obviously under ADCC rules, having top position the whole time and controlling the opponent doesn't count for much, but it highlights Yushin's ability very well.

 

[zzzzz]

There would be little difference. Silva would go full matrix mode by the end of the first round. Twenty seconds into the second Weidman would be freezing up. Shortly after that he would be laying on his side crying for the fight to be stopped.

 

[The Soothsayer]

Belcher could test his chin for sure. He has pretty good power and technique. Bisping probably wouldn't test his chin, but he would test his striking. Also, I didn't say he didn't "want" to fight them. Regardless of the offer, he was clear in interviews that he wasn't interested in fighting them. His chance at Silva definitely was a factor but look what happened, the UFC obviously didn't want that fight.

Then why did Dana say he was the number 1 contender and that it was Anderson who didn't feel like fighting?

 

[MadMaxPowers]

Okami was mentally beat and already lost even before he entered the cage (you could see it in his face), where as Weidman is pushing for the fight and won't be as timid.

Okami didn't even try to do shit once he got the clinch, made me realize he was buying time for the inevitable. That's the difference; one is in there not to lose and the other is there to win.

 

[Kumason]

So who actually thinks Weidman is better than Okami? So I can never take you seriously again.

I see you say a lot of dumb shit...I told you the other day let's do a sig bet.Instead let's bet accounts loser get's banned. pm me I won't be checking this thread again.I'm not saying weidman's better than okami but it's not a huge stretch if someone wants to think that.I think he's right around that level and I think he's got higher potential for sure.

 

[Mike Escobar]

Then why did Dana say he was the number 1 contender and that it was Anderson who didn't feel like fighting?

How many times has Dana said someone was the number 1 contender? Pettis? Gus? Okami multiple times before actually getting it? When are we using Dana's good word as an argument. Also, can anyone actually prove that Silva was offered a contract to fight Chris Weidman and turned it down?

 

[TicoMMAfan]

Okami was unbelievable scared. He had all the tools to win... and he was beat before he came into the arena. Maybe it was Brazil, maybe he's just a Marquardt.... but he was honestly beat.

Not saying he could have won anyway, just saying he choked.


Weidman might not be able to do any better... but I'll be betting some good money he can.

 

[Mike Escobar]

Okami was mentally beat and already lost even before he entered the cage (you could see it in his face), where as Weidman is pushing for the fight and won't be as timid.

Okami didn't even try to do shit once he got the clinch, made me realize he was buying time for the inevitable. That's the difference; one is in there not to lose and the other is there to win.

I don't think confidence is something people other than mind readers should have the ability to judge...and mind readers don't exist.

 

[Snakesolidsnake]

Every opinion is meant to be scrutinized thats why its an opinion. Dean Lister may have been a great ju jitsu player but was a terrible mma fighter and Okami laid on top of him for 3 rounds. Maia and Okami had a ju jitsu match? Ill have to find it online.

If I remember correctly, Maia won by points but it looked fairly even throughout the match.

 

[Mike Escobar]

Okami was unbelievable scared. He had all the tools to win... and he was beat before he came into the arena. Maybe it was Brazil, maybe he's just a Marquardt.... but he was honestly beat.

Not saying he could have won anyway, just saying he choked.


Weidman might not be able to do any better... but I'll be betting some good money he can.

I respect that you would put money on it...as I would anyone else that would bet on Weidman instead of just bashing Silva. I would be willing to wager on Silva of course xD

 

[Mike Escobar]

If I remember correctly, Maia won by points but it looked fairly even throughout the match.

It was quite even. Okami wasn't threatened much but Maia did put him on the defensive for most of the match and won based on that.