What will make a potential Weidman/Silva fight different than Silva/Okami?

[Mike Escobar]

People are making the same exact argument they made for Okami they are currently making with Weidman...

-Okami had the ability to put Anderson on his back and had the type of tools on the ground that kept Sonnen from finishing the job. In effect, Okami was supposed to put Silva on his back and not only keep him there, but not get finished in the process.

This same argument is now surfacing with a potential Weidman fight. People will inevitable say that Weidman is a more skilled wrestler than Okami which is indeed true...on paper. As far as functional MMA wrestling goes, Okami has faired much better and has demonstrated more functional grappling against better fighters over a longer period of time.

So what will make the Weidman/Silva fight any different? Will Chris fair better on the feet? Nothing he has shown on the feet thus far would make me think otherwise. His fight with Maia was a sloppy kickboxing match and he didn't really look that much better than Maia on the feet. Unlike most Weidman haters, I will give him the Munoz fight, despite the fact that Munoz has never looked that impressive to me (but Munoz has won fights).

That is all. I have mostly kept quiet during Weidman/Silva debates but wanted to make my points. I think Weidman is an interesting matchup but I think he needs a legit no.1 contender bout to secure it. I wouldn't even mind seeing the fight soon. I just don't see the same thing that many other people see.

 

[EJRMAN513]

Okami is quite possibly the least aggressive fighter at 185, while Weidman, probably one of the most aggressive guys at 185. Okami just laid back and let Anderson pick him apart. If anything a fight with Weidman would look more like the second Chael fight(IF ANYTHING, I think if they were to actually fight, Weidman would have more success than what Chael had in the second outing). I think Weidman would go down swinging while Okami was basically a food crumb that Anderson just wiped off of his shirt.

 

[Mike Escobar]

Okami is quite possibly the least aggressive fighter at 185, while Weidman, probably one of the most aggressive guys at 185. Okami just laid back and let Anderson pick him apart. If anything a fight with Weidman would look more like the second Chael fight(IF ANYTHING, I think if they were to actually fight, Weidman would have more success than what Chael had in the second outing). I think Weidman would go down swinging while Okami was basically a food crumb that Anderson just wiped off of his shirt.

But which Weidman would show up, the one that fought Munoz or the one that fought Maia? The Weidman that fought Maia wasn't very aggressive. Also, while Okami isn't aggressive, he doesn't get bullied that often (mainly because it is hard to bully someone with gorilla strength). It only took one well placed knee from Anderson to back Okami from the clinch. I think Weidman would fair better, but there is nothing that shows that he is leaps and bounds above a fighter like Okami.

 

[Rozko]

Weidman has the ability to get Anderson down outside of the clinch, he wasn't KO'd by Silva before, he won't break mentally in the first few moments of the fight, he will actually attempt to finish the fight on the ground, and he will get KO's coming forward.

 

[Matthew Fedler]

Much better wrestling than Okami. His style of wrestling is much more similar to Chael than Okami. Okami works mostly from the clinch and Weidman shoots singles and doubles. Weidman is much more active in attempting submissions than Okami and Chael. Lastly, potential. How good he looked against Munoz was totally unexpected and if he continues to improve he has a bright future.

Stylistically he is a bad match for Anderson, with wrestling on Sonnen's level but more capable of finishing fights on the ground. Not saying he would beat Anderson, but I think it is a definite possibility.

 

[Rozko]

But which Weidman would show up, the one that fought Munoz or the one that fought Maia? The Weidman that fought Maia wasn't very aggressive. Also, while Okami isn't aggressive, he doesn't get bullied that often (mainly because it is hard to bully someone with gorilla strength). It only took one well placed knee from Anderson to back Okami from the clinch. I think Weidman would fair better, but there is nothing that shows that he is leaps and bounds above a fighter like Okami.

The fight was taken on about 2 weeks notice and they both showed up sick. They both looked like shit but Weidman won without a camp. I believe the Munoz fight was a better bench mark. That being said I think Silva gets the KO after a good 3 rounds.

 

[Mike Escobar]

Much better wrestling than Okami. His style of wrestling is much more similar to Chael than Okami. Okami works mostly from the clinch and Weidman shoots singles and doubles. Weidman is much more active in attempting submissions than Okami and Chael. Lastly, potential. How good he looked against Munoz was totally unexpected and if he continues to improve he has a bright future.

Stylistically he is a bad match for Anderson, with wrestling on Sonnen's level but more capable of finishing fights on the ground. Not saying he would beat Anderson, but I think it is a definite possibility.

Munoz is a terrible litmus test wrestling and striking wise. Munoz has been taken down by Leben and Ko'd by Matt Hammil. It was still an impressive win but he needs a win over someone that will test him in the standup like Belcher, Belfort, or Bisping (one of the B's lol)

 

[Matthew Fedler]

But which Weidman would show up, the one that fought Munoz or the one that fought Maia? The Weidman that fought Maia wasn't very aggressive. Also, while Okami isn't aggressive, he doesn't get bullied that often (mainly because it is hard to bully someone with gorilla strength). It only took one well placed knee from Anderson to back Okami from the clinch. I think Weidman would fair better, but there is nothing that shows that he is leaps and bounds above a fighter like Okami.

You know Weidman was a replacement for that fight and went through a ridiculous weight cut that clearly affected his performance, right? So I guess it depends on how much notice Weidman gets.

 

[EJRMAN513]

But which Weidman would show up, the one that fought Munoz or the one that fought Maia? The Weidman that fought Maia wasn't very aggressive. Also, while Okami isn't aggressive, he doesn't get bullied that often (mainly because it is hard to bully someone with gorilla strength). It only took one well placed knee from Anderson to back Okami from the clinch. I think Weidman would fair better, but there is nothing that shows that he is leaps and bounds above a fighter like Okami.

You've gotta think, Weidman took that fight on not even two weeks notice. He fought a safe fight fight to avoid gassing. Fun Fact: In Weidmans UFC career, the only fights that went to a decision were his fights with Alessio Sakara and Demian Main. Both were fights that he took on short notice.

 

[Mike Escobar]

The fight was taken on about 2 weeks notice and they both showed up sick. They both looked like shit but Weidman won without a camp. I believe the Munoz fight was a better bench mark. That being said I think Silva gets the KO after a good 3 rounds.

If you are going to apply circumstances to the Weidman/Maia fight why not talk about the long injury related layoff for Munoz and how that affected the fight?

 

[IrEgption]

But which Weidman would show up, the one that fought Munoz or the one that fought Maia? The Weidman that fought Maia wasn't very aggressive. Also, while Okami isn't aggressive, he doesn't get bullied that often (mainly because it is hard to bully someone with gorilla strength). It only took one well placed knee from Anderson to back Okami from the clinch. I think Weidman would fair better, but there is nothing that shows that he is leaps and bounds above a fighter like Okami.

The weidman who fight maia took the fight on like 9 or 10 days notice. like the man said "Give me a full training camp and I finish fights."

 

[Rozko]

If you are going to apply circumstances to the Weidman/Maia fight why not talk about the long injury related layoff for Munoz and how that affected the fight?

He had a full camp to prepare for Weidman specifically and was outclassed by a fighter that on paper is superior in every category.

 

[Mike Escobar]

You know Weidman was a replacement for that fight and went through a ridiculous weight cut that clearly affected his performance, right? So I guess it depends on how much notice Weidman gets.

I am aware of this factor...but the only people that seem to use that as an excuse are everyone but Weidman. It was a very noble thing to do taking that fight but let's be real, there were just as legitimate circumstances around the Munoz fight as there were regarding the Maia fight, which is why I would want to see Weidman in a real no.1 contender fight.

 

[Zodiac**]

Weidman is a better striker, wrestler and overall grappler then Okami. Watch his grappling matches, he is just on another level. Another poster stated about the aggression factor too, even if they were equal in skill sets Okami is way more passive.

 

[NetHazard]

So who actually thinks Weidman is better than Okami? So I can never take you seriously again.

 

[Mike Escobar]

Weidman is a better striker, wrestler and overall grappler then Okami. Watch his grappling matches, he is just on another level. Another poster stated about the aggression factor too, even if they were equal in skill sets Okami is way more passive.

Okami grapple fucked Dean Lister for 3 rounds without being remotely threatened, and he also took Maias back in straight jiu-jitsu. Weidman has good grappling, but saying he is above Okami on another level is an opinion that should be scrutinized.

 

[Matthew Fedler]

Munoz is a terrible litmus test wrestling and striking wise. Munoz has been taken down by Leben and Ko'd by Matt Hammil. It was still an impressive win but he needs a win over someone that will test him in the standup like Belcher, Belfort, or Bisping (one of the B's lol)

Well I don't think any of those guys would be able to keep it standing in order to test him. I believe Weidman holds wins over Phil Davis and Ryan Bader in wrestling. Striking I don't think he has a chance with Silva, but Munoz was (is?) Anderson's wrestling coach and it seems fairly obvious Weidman has a big advantage over Silva in the wrestling department. Munoz was not needed as a litmus test to know that.

The questions are how would Weidman's chin hold up if/when caught, can he avoid the big shots and get takedowns, could he control him on the ground and avoid submissions, possibly getting his own?

 

[The Soothsayer]

They're nothing alike.

Not even their grappling is anything alike.

 

[EJRMAN513]

So who actually thinks Weidman is better than Okami? So I can never take you seriously again.

I guess you won't be taking me seriously then.

 

[NetHazard]

I guess you won't be taking me seriously then.

Yeah sorry, I just can't. No disrespect or anything.