1. We now have a new forum called Fantasy Matchup Discussion. Access it here

What to do with overely rough training partners?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by mogway, Sep 14, 2005.

  1. mogway

    mogway Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Last night at bjj practise, My last sparring was with this guy who is rougly the same size as me (6'1' 200 lbs).I am a four stripe blue belt and he is a three stripe white but who has freakish strength and is very aggressive.

    We went at it normally but i noticed that he was extremely stiff and wasn't trying much and was staying in my guard.
    I caught him with a triangle, this guy lifts me up in the air , and I tell him" No slamming" .So basically he violently opens my triangle and drops from the top. He didn't slam. When I fell, I was pissed. I was like" what the fuck? you can't just drop me like that! U have to use technique" . The guy didn't apologize. So we continued. I sweeped him and passed his guard, put a knee on stomach and was working for a lapel choke. Unfortunately time ran out. At the end I pulled out my hand and he didn't want to shake it.

    The way I see it the instructor should tell him off for this kind of behaviour but he didn't. That's not normal.

    I have two views, either I don't spar with him anymore because it isn't interesting to work with someone who is clearly a bit deranged. Or fuck it it is a good way to test myself with someone who goes overly hard on me.What would you guys do in this situation?
     
  2. Big Red

    Big Red Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,161
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Columbia
    That sucks dood.

    1.) Best to avoid him or you could be petit & just punish him. To be honest, probably a bad idea.
    2.) Good on you for a)sayin he should use technique and b) still oferring a hand shake.
    3.) It shouldn't really be up to your instructor, he should have common sense & not slam.

    At our place, if someones rough, your just rough back, but we have the occasionaly head butters or cross facing, not the Rampage Triangle powerbomb attempts. I know it sounds like I'm saying be a "tell tell" but perhaps mention it to some of your guys there, see if they have experienced him to be diffucult.
     
  3. BJJ1995

    BJJ1995 White Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2005
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would "teach" him time after time, after time until he has enough - just to "let him know." I've experienced guys like this in our academy. You simply have to "break him in."
     
  4. mogway

    mogway Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just talked to my instructor on the phone. I basically told him that he should talk to this guy, and tell him to relax and not go all out so hard. To work more on technical solutions over power ones. I told him the guy was a nice guy but that when he trains he blanks out and I honestly feel like he is trying to kill me lol. My instructor totally agreed with me and he'll have a word with him
     
  5. mcbadboy170

    mcbadboy170 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Indiana
    I feel there are 2 kinds of "rough" guys. 1) The really good BJJ guy who just has a hard style. He just plays the game tough, not dirty, but tough. 2) The Douche bag white belt who's been there for 2 weeks, might of trained some "Wrestling" or whatever in the army for a month, and thinks he's a bad ass. For these guys just punish them with superior technique. Make them realize that if the do stupid shit like try to slam you or a Dan Severn neck crank your going to bust out some crazy shit that will make them look retarded.
     
  6. Jason Pair

    Jason Pair Amateur Fighter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    TN
    I honestly don't see the problem. He didn't slam you and he escaped the triangle, granted it wasn't the most technical escape. But in the ring, grappling tournament, or on the street the opponent isn't going to do the most technical actions, he is going to do whatever is necessary.. You train in the Gi, so this should allow you to control him, keep him from powering out of moves as often. I find when people try using power interesting so I can make sure all my game is complete

    The two of you are about the same size and you apparently have more experience, so fuck it, train with him the only thing that's likely to get hurt is your ego. (I agree for his sake he needs to use technique in training)

    As for me, I have a very technical sometimes rough style. I'm only around 6'2 205 against smaller/weaker guys in training I use as little strength as possible. If a new guy comes in bigger than me or smaller than me and clearly has an attitude and tries slamming me.. ect.. I will give what he gives me back 10 fold, except I train in all the little tricks I've crosstrained some Catch (if you've ever rolled with someone who has trained with Gene Lebel, or a Lebel student) it's a very educational experience.

    I train mostly No-Gi so I don't have the benifit of having the Gi to use to control and for handles. We have this guy who is ridiculously strong 6'1 260 pounds (all muscle) he was a bodybuilder and has been wrestling since he was in middle school.. National Champion level collegiate wrestler so you can imagine even though I am much more technical with my jiu-jitsu, and more experienced in the submission grappling game it can take quite awhile to catch something and get the tap.

    Anyway there was/is some slight badblood between me and this guy (Something of a long story involving alcohol. We used to work at the same club. We ended up having a challenge kickboxing match in which I kicked his ass) So obviously he isn't going to be giving up any submissions easy, and I'm not going to let him pass my guard to see what happens.

    Few weeks ago we were rolling, I noticed he was going into a very akward position in my guard (Had his left arm across my throat trying to drive his weight into me and he had a very low base trying to pin my leg and pass) I realized in about 2-3 seconds he was about to give me the arm, so when I saw it I went for it.. And I got it good, had it extended.. he lifted me up to slam (I did a sit up so I wouldn't land on my head neck) put alooot more pressure on it, he slammed me again and slipped the arm out.. I shook his hand, told him good escape.. I also kindly informed him that the next time I caught the arm and he tried slamming me I am simply going to snap it and not think twice.

    Personally, I like rolling with guys like that. It'll help you learn to keep their weight off you, better control, and it's good guard work.

    (If the guy didn't shake your hand and was obviously angry grappling.. Yes that is disrespectful so do what you have to do)

    I have another recent experience while the guy didn't have much technique at all (unlike the 260 pnd wrestler) and made the mistake of biting me then tried going retarded trying to slam me and shit (I guess I made him angry, because I was using several of those tricks I spoke of, since this guy had previously disrespected me)

    Don't get so angry at the guy trying to slam you if you plan on competiting, but if he tries slamming you out of anger and to obviously hurt you. You should, by all means, give it back to him. Just my advice/opinion based on exp.
     
  7. mogway

    mogway Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for sharing that dude.
     
  8. Sohei

    Sohei A Smocking gun

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Messages:
    28,013
    Likes Received:
    6,394
    Yeah I sparred with a guy who wouldnt be honorable and intead of locking your arm and giving you time to tap he wold just try to crank on it unitl you tapped or screamed. He would also try to grab your wrist or heel and just start rolling trying to twist it until you screamed. I tried to talk to him about it but he wouldnt listen so one time when I was in his guard I went for an ezekiel choke and when he blocked it I just started bashing the back of his head off the ground until he was stunned. He quit sparring with us. ;)
     
  9. mysilentsigh

    mysilentsigh the sun is but a morning star

    Joined:
    May 2, 2005
    Messages:
    1,010
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    germany
    why don't you just tell him that you are not interested in getting badly hurt in practise and that he should take it easy.
    however, i don't understand your "you have to use technique" argument. if he's able to open your triangle with pure strength thats good for him, bad for you, but not not outside the rule box.
     
  10. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,067
    Likes Received:
    0
    Offer to buy him a beer and go discuss it like men. Don't go running to your instructor.
     
  11. sanuces

    sanuces Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    441
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Tallahasee, FL
    spazzes have to be despazzed. there is nothing the instructor can really do except tell him to chill but that prolly won't stop the spazzing. teach him a lesson everytime he rolls with you.
     
  12. Terrier

    Terrier Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    2,555
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    UK
    The way I look at it is sometimes it's annoying if your tired/hurt or simply not in the mood BUT you never know what you're getting when you're in a torney/on the street so the odd guy going hard can be a good thing.

    If I went to a club where everyone was like that though i'd probably look to train elsewhere.

    As someone said above - talk it out with the guy first before you speak to the instructor.
     
  13. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    1,703
    Likes Received:
    15
    Let me get this straight. You guys had to settle something in the past with a kickboxing challenge match? 'slight badblood' is a fricken understatement! If you two can roll together reasonably civilly then I suppose the rest of us should quit whining about our training partners...

    :D
     
  14. ARIS

    ARIS Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 7, 2002
    Messages:
    3,190
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Greece
    just submit him a few times... he will come around, or leave...
     
  15. Mark Allen

    Mark Allen Enforcer

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Diego
    Training hard is one thing, getting injurred is something totaly different. It IS up to the instructor, to monitor whats going on on his mats all the time. I always roll first with the new recruits to see how they behave, identify the spazzes (as some one called them above). I'll discuss thier vision of what training is to them, suggest some alternate appocahes and roll with them again. If they improve they roll with my seasoned students, but never new on new, that is stupid and asking for injuries. Rarely will I have to cut one loose from the school, but I have been known to. It is possible to teach submission grappling with very few injuries and produce some very strong students.
    Congatulations on taking the high road and offering your hand after the match, that says alot about you, and the other students in your school notice.
     
  16. mogway

    mogway Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Anyway With some people it is a pleasure to spare because they have a good state of mind.I am always smilling when I spar because I am having fun.
    Next Time I spar with this guy I won't play around as much and will submit him a few times to calm him down.
     
  17. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    11,370
    Likes Received:
    9,670
    Location:
    USA!USA!USA!
    Just say...

    Hey, if you want to be brutal and rough in training you are going to receive that kind of treatment in return.

    Just sort of sigh, then knee ride his neck.

    I remember a guy many years ago trying a Rampage powerbomb to get out of my triangle. The instructor tells him not to do that again. Didn't matter much to me because I didn't let go of the triangle....even after he tapped....my instructor literally had to pull my legs apart to let him go. He stumbled around gagging and paniced. I don't think he ever did that again.

    The way I look at is if the other guy is trying to seriously injure me and does not care about my safety than I have no responsibility to look out for his. Usually I am EXTREMELY carefull with my partners because accidents happen enough without idiots trying to hurt each other. But when someone displays habitual callous disregard for you, the deal is off.
     
  18. Commissar

    Commissar Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2003
    Messages:
    15,585
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    British Columbia
    There's the epitome of BJJ right there. It's good to hear that sort of thing.

    But yeah, just submit him a few times. Completely dominate him. I have a question though. Is it your first time sparring him? He has a 2-stripe white belt... did he train elsewhere? Is he a regular? I'm thinking he was just trying his best - using everything he had, including pure strength - to defeat a blue belt. And by doing so, he may have portrayed himself like a jackass.
     
  19. codysweet02

    codysweet02 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    2,892
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Bangkok
    I think the best way to go about it would be, the next time you get him in a triangle, choke the fuck out of him. Then tell him you can either take it easy or go rough, his choice. If you are a purp you should be able to submit him fairly often, so if he feels like going hard again choke the dogshit out of him until he understands that it isnt a real fight. Sometimes this is the only thing people understand in life, a good asskicking.
     
  20. stu3ufc**

    stu3ufc** Yoshihiro Akiyama

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Messages:
    29,324
    Likes Received:
    8

    agree type 1 guys u mentioned will make you better- type 2 guys will just injure you and you just can't improve against there wild style
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.