What to do when "invited" into somebody's guard???

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by S.D.Force, Jul 19, 2005.

  1. S.D.Force

    S.D.Force Blue Belt

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    We see many times in tournament play, where a person will either sit down, or be down and just try to "invite" the opponent down into his guard. Question is, what do you do? What is the best approach? Should you go for the leg lock because the leg is right there? Should you try to set up some kind of pass?

    In general what is the higher percentage move, pass attempt, or leg lock (as opposed to just going into his guard).

    And what techniques do you think work the best in that situation? Assuming you want to engage the person in that way, and not just continue to stand and avoid the guard.
     
  2. S.D.Force

    S.D.Force Blue Belt

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    How about the following suggestion:

    How about a "hanging leg lock" type of sub attempt. If the opponent is in a "sitting guard". Grab the opponents left shin/lower leg (or whichever leg is protruding more), with your right arm. Then pull it hard up into the air and latch onto it by curling your arm. Now with your left foot you step on his inner thigh of the opposite leg and hold it down by putting your weight on it. Now you're kind of stretching him out a bit. From here you could go for a standing type of ankle lock, or achilles hold. Or you could quickly take him into a heel hook position on the mat...either go for a standard heel hook kind of position, or you could step over the leg that is pinned to the ground and go for the heel hook after you pass the opposite leg.

    Or, if he has one foot down on the ground and is in the sitting guard, you could place one hand on the top of the foot, and put your weight on it...say, your right hand on his left foot for example. Now, in one quick motion, you figure four the ankle/foot in one quick motion and then dive your body over his left leg, all the way to the outside (without hooking the other leg) and roll into an inside toe hold. I've seen this one done by high level people in tournaments a couple of times. Once that figure four is locked it seems pretty secure and you really don't have to bother with hooking the opposite leg. It's faster, pretty secure, and a quick sub.

    Here's an original one that i created for a guard pass. Since i'm (very) good with arm drags, i've adapted them to the leg. Now if the guy is in the sitting guard with the lead leg bent a little and forward, what you can do is grab high on the calf, by the knee in one very quick powerful motion. Next you quickly pull that leg towards the other leg at about a 45 degree angle. This actually pivots him on his butt as the momentum spins him around. One reason this works is that a natural reaction to the "leg-drag" is to pull your leg back into yourself. This makes the leg stiff enough to be successfully draged........Now, after you have pulled/dragged the leg toward you and the opposite leg at a 45 angle, you actually can go for the side mount right away, or you can kind of roll into him. So if you are dragging with your right arm, you will roll onto him with your left shoulder leading. You roll all the way until you read your stomach. Now you'll be in a high side mount, or in the north/south position. With this last method he has a harder time in getting his inside leg back in to re-gain guard.

    Anybody else have other unique ideas???
     
  3. GJJNY

    GJJNY Purple Belt

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    Jump guard on the ref, when your opponent is in shock, SMASH!
     
  4. Sauron

    Sauron Red Belt

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    if someone does that i would make them standup or try something a little out of the ordinary
     
  5. phenomfan1529

    phenomfan1529 Brown Belt

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    hmm... never seen this happen, what do people usually do? does anyone just step into the guys guard?
     
  6. Balto

    Balto Silver Belt

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    I definitely see that style used in tournaments a lot.

    I see it mostly in no-gi when a true submission grappler is fighting more of a wrestler type. The submission guy will just sit down and the wrestler will get mad and tell the ref to force him to stand.

    I think the whole argument is pretty funny. "Ref, he's gotta stand up! Make him stand up! He's gotta stand up!" Wrestlers will totally flip out on anyone who tries that. It is a lame tactic though, in my opinion.

    I usually try to standing guard pass in that situation. If you don't want to pass, you can force them to stand up. Just back up a little and slowly extend your hand. Turn it upwards and do the come here finger wave like in the movies. Scream "GET OVER HERE!" like Scorpion while doing so. The ref will be intimidated by you and immediately order your opponent to stand up.
     
  7. phenomfan1529

    phenomfan1529 Brown Belt

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    haha, maybe i should try it against some wrestlers. lol
     
  8. kimurense

    kimurense Brown Belt

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    USE THE ATOMIC BUTT DROP!!!!


    or see leo vieira x eddie bravo, that is how you should do it
     
  9. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    if its pure sport bjj, the first thing i do is get a solid grip on his pants at the knees with both hands. then i pin his knees to the ground, putting weight on them like im doing a pushup, and walk around the side to knee on belly. you can combine this pass with the "knee across (through)" pass. this is my bread and butter shit - less 1 other pass i use in combination with these 2.
     
  10. Sherdog_Mutt

    Sherdog_Mutt Purple Belt

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    I've been doing this guard pass for a long time. It is actually one of my favorite no gi passes. I strongly recommend that after you "leg-drag" the opponent that you immediately transition to knee on belly and not side control. Otherwise, against an opponent with a good guard, the extra second it takes to go side control would be what he needs to recover guard.

    As for suggestions of what to do... these are the perfect situations for the star pass. haha... whether you can actually pull it off is another story altogether.
     
  11. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot

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    Invited into the guard with thier legs just pointing at you? Wow. That would be dumb. I guess go for the footlock, except that they are probably baiting you.

    I just pin thier feet to the ground and pass. Sometimes if I am feeling froggy I will do the star pass.

    Sometimes I just stand there shaking my head and make them feel stupid by motioning for them to get up. And when they do I throw them.
     
  12. daigoro

    daigoro I'll see you in heII!!!

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    Fuck it, you should get cool points for at least trying them. :D

    Or you could be an ass and flop to your back and invite the other guy into YOUR guard. How do u like them apples?
     
  13. S.D.Force

    S.D.Force Blue Belt

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    actually, just to clarify, i was referring to a NO-Gi situation. This is all i really do.

    Referring to the above post, I've always thought that would be an interesting situation. If the guy just drops down into his own sitting guard to try to bait the other guy up from his butt and into his guard.

    What i see a lot of is people just dropping down into the guys guard, without really having a strategy for an immediate pass, or a leg lock.

    by the way, the "knee drag" going to a knee on belly would probably be a good idea. I'll have to try that one.
     
  14. dutchmasterj3

    dutchmasterj3 Blue Belt

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    Usually when sparring when people open their guard for me to step in, I usually just grab a leg and try to pass. Never just sit in to someone's guard. That's retarded.
     
  15. spiderguardman

    spiderguardman Purple Belt

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    pass teh gaurd??
    strange that nobody suggested that

    edit: sorry missed that colinm
    , agree with your choice of pass, harder in sw though
     
  16. S.D.Force

    S.D.Force Blue Belt

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    the question is what is the BEST types of guard passes if you choose to go that route.....
     
  17. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    if its no gi, i would do the same sequence, but with a little variation on the first pass:

    put your palms on the front of his shins and just push his legs into his butt. edge up close to him and eventually put pressure on his butt/hips with your leading shin/knee. give a little pressure on one side of him with that leading foot, then quickly move back, push his legs to the side you were applying pressure to, and move around to knee on belly on the other side.

    second pass i use with this is the knee across or knee through pass, called the margarita pass with a gi. but with no gi, you jjust need to make sure to get the underhook on the far arm to stop his move to your back.

    third pass: if i am passing to my opponent's left side and he has turned towards me (on his side) in a psuedo half guard to defend my knee through pass, i reach my left hand down behind his right leg (the one higher off the ground) and cup the front of his left quad, preventing him from moving his left leg forward and recovering guard. i use a knee rudder movement to free my leg if he has control, then grab behind his neck with my right hand. from here, i just drive into him hard, keeping pressure on his left leg to pin it and pulling with my right hand on the back of his neck to prevent him from moving his head away from me and recovering guard. with a gi, i will use his sleeve, the gi by the tricep area, or a collar grip instead of the neck grip.

    again, this is my bread and butter shit, my go-to sequence. i absolutely love these passes and will only do others if ive been completely shut down. i hope my explaination was adequate.
     
  18. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot

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    Run straight in and knee them in the face ala Genki Sudo v Royler Gracie. Finish with a brutal GnP and then take a victory lap as the rest of your BJJ class stares in disbelief...
     
  19. colinm

    colinm Brown Belt

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    here's another one because im bored, stuck at work, and dont feel like working. it works well in the sequence i described above and its uber-flashy and cool:

    from the first guard pass where you have your right shin pushed up on his butt and are pinning his feet to his ass: instead of pushing his legs to your fight and passing to your left, putting your right knee on his belly, push his legs to your left and put your right knee on his belly. your back should be facing him now, in a "reverse knee on belly" position. now here's the fancy part. putting all your weight on your right knee/leg, spin around 270 degrees (moving your left foot from his left side allllll the way around to his right) to mount. sometimes your opponent wont get his other arm through (his right arm, in this example, and he will give you a triangle from the top. you should have done a complete 360 from your initial position.
     
  20. 2om30

    2om30 Red Belt

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    It depends if he/ she (thinking about Kyra again dammit :redface: ) has a sick guard make him/ her (kyra :D ) play top. If they have a well rounded game your screwed.
     

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