What to do against a**-holes who stall???

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by gugamare, Jun 26, 2008.

  1. gugamare Blue Belt

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    Hello fellow sherdogging grapplers!

    I need y'all's advice on what to do when you're grappling against a total a**-hole who does nothing but stall?

    Let me contextualize this: I'm BJJ / Judo practitioner. I got a pretty technical ground game, but I'm not physically very strong. Lately I'm a little less in shape because I've been working too hard on my PhD thesis.

    Anyways, I'm staying in a region in France with no BJJ schools, so I've been concentrating in Judo. Once a week they got a class that focuses a bit more on the ground. Most of the guys in the club are in very good physical shape, but just an OK ground game. Occasionally, the instructors ask me to teach the class the ground techniques for the week and people tend to like and respect me allot.

    Last night I went to the class and I had a couple of ground matches with a real d*ck-head in the club, who thinks that there is no point in even practicing ground-technique. The guy is Judo black belt and much bigger me by the way. So we rolled for a few minutes and I totally owned the SOB.

    BUT,,, As soon as I got him in an armbar from the guard position, he was able to lift me up of the mat and would call for the match to stop. So I tell him that although its technically true that in a Judo match the ref would stop the match, we tend to relax the rules a bit for practicing. The guy is a total wanker, so he kind of just looked at me like an absolute idiot. To be cool, I respected all the Judo rules and we restarted the match.

    We continued rolling and to avoid getting picked-up in his guard, I decided to get him from the back. I did. It wasn't hard, but as soon as I got his back, the dude did nothing but ball up and protect his neck. I took me maybe a minute or so to spread him out, and another few seconds to force his hands off his neck. It worked. I started working on a RNC, but I couldn't get my arm underneath his chin.

    I didn't want to be a complete douche-bag and crush his face or something to get him to react so I kept him in this position until time was called. So I bet you all know where this is going... I met with the guy later in the locker-room and he was basically saying to the other students that ground game is useless because no one actually has the "time" to submit him.

    That really pissed me off. Specially because I know that if I were not such a "cool" costumer I could have forced his sorry a** to tap. So I'm thinking next week I'm going to teach this dude a lesson.

    I'm thinking of dirty jiu-jitsuing his a**: Holding his mouth and nose with my hand. Face crush. The old chin-in the eye. Grabbing his legs and doing a calf-crush instead (this is illegal in Judo). Not letting go of the armbar when he picks me up and just keep holding it until the b*tch screams... sh*t like that.

    So here is my 2 question sherdoggers:

    - What do you think should to do in this situation?

    - Does anyone recommend any particular technique to try on a staller?

    thanks.
     
  2. It's Judo not BJJ. In practical terms, stalling is a legitimate method of defence, as is standing up out of an armbar. In a way he is right, you might be able to RNC him after a minute or so, but that would be no good in a judo match.

    If you want to teach the dude a lesson, tap him or turn him over into a pin within 10 seconds of starting an attack. Attacking the turtle is a very different proposition in judo. Acknowledging this and changing your game approriately is a key aspect of being able to use your BJJ in Judo. When you're rolling focus on getting the quick tap. Gi chokes, reverse triangles, armlocks and turnovers not RNCs.

    Don't start doing nasty shit, it's equivalent to some white belt spazzing because he can't beat you in bjj.
     
  3. ShanghaiBJJ Brown Belt

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    So you are in a Judo school, where they let you teach some ground and you get pissed because a Judo Blackbelt doesn't want to play BJJ, but rather Judo newaza?


    You calling him an asshole and wanting to hurt him with nasty and bad technique is a VERY poor show of character, after they showed you respect by letting you show them stuff.

    Are you a blue belt? Or purple? What grade are you in Judo?

    Maybe he doesn't feel too comfortable with some BJJ-Is-the-best-Guy talking how he can OWN Bi**es turning the lesson into a BJJ lesson.

    You should work on your character.

    Respect would be the Judo Way.

    Checking your ego at the door the BJJ way.

    Both could work for you.

    P.S.: Let him show you how to pin and escape the Judo way. Be open-minded
     
  4. Jaxx Green Belt

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    Slap his face, back of his head next time he stalls.

    Generally attempt to humiliate him in front of the class.

    He is being the defensive asshole on the mat and the bitch in the locker room.
     
  5. gugamare Blue Belt

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    Wow, I must have given the wrong impression in my post. I've actually been a Judo practitioner for longer than BJJ, and I understand very well the differences in tactics and techniques on the ground between the two. And I'm definitely not one of those guys who thing the only legitimate form of fighting is my own.

    The problem I have with this guys is not only in this fight, and it's not that he didn't want to BJJ with me. Hell, I woulnd't give a crap if he magically turned me around with Thai-Chi powers and pined me to ceiling for the most formidable defeat in human history. I actually would appreciate if someone did this because I could start learning such magical Thai-chi powers.

    The problem I have with this guys is that he's a complete d*ck. Not just to me, not just that time. He's got no patience with with new fighters, will never share his techniques. He often hurts the younger fighters during training... I could go on.
     
  6. Czyivn Yellow Belt

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    Sorry buddy, but he's following the rules of judo. You aren't even allowed to touch his face to get the rnc, which makes tucking your chin a much better defense than it should be. The answer to his assertion is "not everyone is as good at stalling as you are".
     
  7. ozarkdt Yellow Belt

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  8. gugamare Blue Belt

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    True, but it's only illegal if the ref sees it, and he often doesn't. That's why I like train with relaxed rules. You don't want to be balled up during a tourney and have the guy on top of you smother you, while making it look like he's just going for a collar choke. It happened to me in my first Judo competition.
     
  9. Beat him legitimately using superior technique, if you can't do that, just leave him alone.
     
  10. tbonejackson White Belt

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    I'm certainly not as advanced as you in BJJ or Judo but perhaps you could discuss how turtling has no practical self defense application because someone could just start kicking and punching you. I realize this might not be one of the goals of the class but it seems like an important point to mention.

    tbone
     
  11. Jaxx Green Belt

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    LOL, the guy is trusted to teach the ne-wasa class and an egotistical prick decides to use Judo tourny rules in free practise, knowing full well that less strict rules apply.

    The guy is simply not interested in learning anything on the ground and believes that the TS's ground work class is a waste of time.

    Ask him to follow your instruction in class or else tell him not to attend.
     
  12. Jim J Purple Belt

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    If you had a good enough ground game you wouldn't care if he stalls or not. There is no 100% safe position. It's your job to submit or pin him. If his ground game is that bad you should be able to get side control or north south and hold him for the pin.
     
  13. gugamare Blue Belt

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    All venting aside, I think that's what I'll probably do.
     
  14. gugamare Blue Belt

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    If we were in the same weight category that's exactly what I would do. However, rotating a guy 20 lbs heavier than you who's hell bent at staying turtled-up is easier said than done.
     
  15. SuperSuperRambo Steel Belt

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    Not an uncommon situation when rolling with a good judo player. I used to roll with a judo bb and he often stalled, particularly when I took his back. Fortunately, you're wearing the gi, and since you're experienced in judo, I assume you have some gi chokes? Forget the rnc against this guy, I find a good series of collar chokes works well on these types when you have their back. You can get a grip on his collar, and slowly inch it in deeper and deeper using just that one hand. Once you have that, go to town on the guy.
     
  16. wmike9902** Purple Belt

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    jam ur knuckles in his jaw to open it up. You gotta make him pay for giving up his back
     
  17. STFUjiujitsu Blue Belt

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    Is it a bjj class or is it a judo class when your working on ground game???

    If it's judo class and he's using the judo rules in his favor you can't get upset. Now if you explain before hand this is going to practition more to bjj style and X X and X rules don't apply, than that's different. Just make sure everyone is in understanding and if they dont' respect you, and dont' cooperate, than that's a whole different story.
     
  18. ISWThunder HTTP Error 404 File Not Found

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    I have a guy in my BJJ class who does this. He is a Judo brown belt. And because we are the two biggest guys in the class I am constantly paired up with him. Even though he claims that he is only 230 LBs but is definitely heavyer than me and I weigh 250.

    And usually it is no-gi so collar chokes are out the window.

    Fortunatley the BJJ instructor will usually tell him he has to advance his position. Unfortunately this means he goes to his knees, I grab a leg and try to roll him, and he turtles again.

    It sure is fun.
     
  19. DaRuckus337 Black Belt

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    Sounds to me like somebody is pissy because he has shitty attacks from the back and can't even catch a guy who balls and stalls in turtle. Instead of blaming the guy with the admittedly crappy ground game for stalling, why don't you blame your 'technical' ground game for being too limited. Start working on a more diverse ground game (especially backmount and turtle attack), because the simple fact is that inexperienced guys shouldn't be able to just stall out against someone with a solid ground game. RNC should not be your go to technique against a balled up opponent. Work clock chokes, arm triangles, armbars, rolls to a better backmount. Work a variety of breakdowns and pins from wrestling designed to destroy the posture of a heavily turtled opponent. In short, work on getting yourself better instead of whining about how somebody else's approach is too much for you.
     
  20. ShanghaiBJJ Brown Belt

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    Talk to him.

    Ask him if he is there to learn BJJ or to do Judo. In a respectful way. It is hard to step outside your comfort zone, bute make it clear to him that you are there to learn and that he is hindering both your guys' progress.
     

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