What techniques did Helio change to better suit the smaller person?

[lechien]

Carlos is the only Gracie that learned from maeda. No ones knows what he learned. Helio claimed to have learned Carlos jiu jitsu by watching teaching. He claims to have modify it. No way to figure out what was modified. Especially when helio became the head instructor and Carlos took a spiritual leader role. The

 

[triangle killer]

This one?

Then there's this one of him and Carlos, where he appears to be the larger man:

Is that him in the first one? He doesn't look 'fragile' at all, where did that idea come from?

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

Is that him in the first one? He doesn't look 'fragile' at all, where did that idea come from?

The story is that he was fragile before training, when he was learning the techniques. That picture is obviously during his fighting career, where the story goes that he was small, but not fragile.

 

[snoop dogg***]

guard... i remember kron saying he was so weak he couldnt even do 1 pull up.. the guard made things easier for him

 

[AllKnowing]

After seeing some of the early footage of Helio competing against Kimura and Kato, I think it's safe to say Helio's emphasis on guard work can ultimately be viewed as his shining contribution to the grappling community.

For reference:





As for the actual techniques, I don't believe he discovered or created anything that didn't already exist in Judo. It was his style of grappling and the success he had off of his back that differentiated his jiujitsu from more traditional versions.

 

[Einarr]

It really irritates me when Gracies refer to Kimura as a "JiuJitsu fighter".

 

[zomoplata]

Helio was small and fragile as a child. He could never participate in class because he was always sick, so he would jut watch Carlos teach maeda's fusion of jujitsu. One day Carlos wasn't there so helio decided to teach class. He didn't really modify anything, he just picked out the moves that worked for him because of his size. He than began to develope a system around his selected moves with a heavy emphasis on fighting from guard.

 

[AllKnowing]

It really irritates me when Gracies refer to Kimura as a "JiuJitsu fighter".

I think it's clear that the Gracies are likely to pat themselves on the back at every opportunity. To be fair however, when Maeda originally traveled to Brazil, Judo was largely recognized and referred to as Jiujitsu.

It took many years for Judo and Jiujitsu to transform into the separate entities we see today so who knows, in the early 1950's (when Helio/Kimura took place) referring to Kimura as a jiujitsu fighter could in some ways be accurate.

 

[Shorinji]

I'm going to just post my little essay on this topic from an old thread:

And I think there are a lot of places where the Gracies missed the boat (the triangle for example).


That whole post was fascinating.
But how did the Gracies miss the boat on the triangle? Hopefully this isn't something I should already know... :redface:

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

And I think there are a lot of places where the Gracies missed the boat (the triangle for example).


That whole post was fascinating.
But how did the Gracies miss the boat on the triangle? Hopefully this isn't something I should already know... :redface:

Allegedly it wasn't part of the regular curriculum, and Rolles re-discovered it from an old judo book. Who knows the real story. But it seems in the old days (like the 30's) they didn't use the triangle. And the original "Gracie Gift" guard pass is so named because it's a gift to give some the triangle. (The pass is basically reaching one arm through the legs of the closed guard in order to pass.)

 

[cc023]

The Japanese, known for being huge, tall, muscle-bound

 

[Shorinji]

Allegedly it wasn't part of the regular curriculum, and Rolles re-discovered it from an old judo book. Who knows the real story. But it seems in the old days (like the 30's) they didn't use the triangle. And the original "Gracie Gift" guard pass is so named because it's a gift to give some the triangle. (The pass is basically reaching one arm through the legs of the closed guard in order to pass.)

Interesting stuff. Thanks for the reply, much obliged.

 

[cc023]

Is that him in the first one? He doesn't look 'fragile' at all, where did that idea come from?

Because even in the top picture he was less than a buck fifty.

 

[cc023]

this pretty much sums it up. The Helio was "small and weak" myth amazes me, even with pictures of the guy in his prime people buy into it.

He was smaller than other guys who trained any kind of hand to hand combat in Brazil back then...

An average man is about 170-190 lbs. Helio was typically at least 30 lbs smaller than this, not to say he lacked any muscular definition but definitely had a more slight stature.

These are the men who he had to prove his skills against, and this is why he is remembered for being small.... because he was.

 

[Einarr]

Your a disrespectful retard.

You're calling me a "retard" when you don't even know the difference between your and you're? Go back to kindergarten, kid; you might learn something.

 

[cc023]

You're calling me a "retard" when you don't even know the difference between your and you're? Go back to kindergarten, kid; you might learn something.

Oooohhh, I made a typo in my haste that affected my grammar? Well, aren't you just a genius for catching that! Would you like a gold star?

LMAO, I teach Kindergarten.

Maybe I should have corrected all the punctuation errors in your post.

Why are you on a martial arts forum over-simplifying an art's history in an attempt to degrade it behind a facade of humor? I think they have a name for people like that... "troll."

 

[cc023]

The Japanese, known for being huge, tall, muscle-bound

 

[RJ Green]

I think the Gracie nuthugger is butthurt, Einarr...

 

[cc023]

I think the Gracie nuthugger is butthurt, Einarr...

I just don't disrespect the origins of any effective martial art because I'm a martial artist. I don't expect sherdoggers to have the same standard, though so I'm far from butthurt, bud.

You can piss off; your friend doesn't need your help being a dickhead. He's doing fine on his own.

 

[Red Triangle]

I think the Gracie nuthugger is butthurt, Einarr...

If you saw your first martial arts technique on TUF.... Well, I don't usually discuss techniques with TUF noobs, so please leave my forum.