What routine for judo?

[spiral]

First of all, since it's my first post here, hello to everyone.

I started judo last year, and got very enthusiast with it. I'm 24, so it sure is kinda odd to start judo at this age, but I'm hoping to get the most out of it anyway.

I've been told that weight training is not a good thing, because I'll lose flexibility, plus it's not good for a beginner, but I feel a bit different about it: since I start this late, I can only do randoris with black belts of my weight, and they're pretty strong themselves, so no way am I going to progress if I can't at least match a fraction of their strength. And somebody actually told me: when you start this late, you can never improve your technique to the level of long time practiotionners, so you must compensate with raw strength. I decided I would give it a try, given I have access to a bench and a barbell set.

Now about my question, it's quite simple: what are the best base exercices for judo, and what periodization should I use?

I wish to do only a few exercices, because else I feel I wont be able to cope with it (remember I'm a newb!). From what I could see on the forum and other websites, I picked 5 main exercices :
bench press, squats, deadlifts, rowing and full contact twists (also I thought about good mornings...)
What do you think about it?

About periodization, I feel conjugate method would be best, but I'm unsure about the number of reps, because everywhere I get different numbers. Anyway, what I've sort of "decided" would be:

Max effort : 5-6 sets of 2-3 reps with 80%-90% charge and 3 min rest, once a week
Dynamic effort : 8-10 sets of 2-3 reps with 50%-60% charge and 30-60 secs rest, once a week

What do you think of this routine? (given that I already do a lot of f....g running and bodyweight resistance training with army and judo.)

Anyway, thanks for reading the long boring post, and possibly, for answering it :icon_chee !

 

[takeahnase]

The exercise selection looks good obviously. Assuming that you are going to train twice a week, I would not include a DE day. The benefits of DE ala Westside are limited for beginners imo and one ME day is not really enough if you are training upper and lower body. I would go for two full body splits of the type
day 1: squat/DL (alternative weeks), bench, row
day2: front squat/OHS (alternative weeks), OHP, pullups, core
or something similar.
I would also use a 5x5 rep range for starters. After you have built a strength base you can think about tweaking your program. If you want to add "dynamic excercises" do cleans or other variations of the olympic lifts.

 

[spiral]

The benefits of DE ala Westside are limited for beginners imo

Mmmm... Ok, but how could I develop explosive power then?

I understand the need of building a base first, and I do wish to get some muscular mass (not too much though, as I already got a bit with some bench press I did last year, and am already close to my weight category limit). So I suppose I should switch the ME with 5x5, at least in the beginning. BTW, 5x5 with what % charge?

But I also think I should train explosive power from the start on... What would you recommend, then, if DE is not efficient for me? I've read somewhere that 6-reps at 40-50% are good for explosive power...

Oh, and I train only twice a week, but I already do a lot of pull ups, push ups and crunches between judo sessions and army... Should I still add some of those to main sessions? I always thought those bodyweight exercises were for resistance training

 

[Judoka101]

Squats are good for Judoka's

But i see no problem with weights, i do them and im very flexable and also Rhadi Ferguson a Judo and also BJJ black belt(2004 olympian) and hes also a strength and conditioning coach, he lifts weights and very heavy ones at that.

 

[SmashiusClay]

As far as I'm concerned congugate periodisation is a bad idea for new lifters without constant supervision and coaching, form goes to shite and ego takes over when it comes to selecting weights.

IMO you'd be better off with a simple routine based around the exercises you suggested (not a bad selection although I feel overhead press is probably one of the single best things a grappler can work on), I'd reccomend you nick the two day routine out of the stickies and get to work. Look to slowly increase your weights and make steady progress while working on learning form. I like 5x5 but working triples for 5-8 sets is fun too.

Two day split:

Day one:
Deadlift
Overhead press
Weighted pullup/chinup

Day two:
Squat
Benchpress
Bent over row

Once you start getting strong and you learn how to deal with weights come back and we'll talk about powercleans, snatches etc. BTW does anybody else love doing lighter weight push press and trying to throw the weight as high as you can with leg drive?

WRT judo - I have plenty of friends who started much later than you, in fact Bubble boy on this forum trains judo and he's like in his 90s , your technique will be as good as you make it, work constantly on footwork and train as much as possible learn to grip fight properly and it'll come in time.

Your flexibility will only improve if you weight train properly (don't believe me go read 'stretching scientifically' by Thomas Kurz, actually if you want to improve your flexibility go do that anyway).

If you want to be good at judo I can't rave on about grip training enough, read the section in the FAQ and look to pick up some grippers and a sledge hammer, you'll find throwing people becomes much easier once you develop some wrist strength.

 

[DEVILsSON]

I'd go with what Smashius recommended. Overall some very good advice. I 2nd the grip training. Also throw in a couple weighted exercises for the trunk. Full contact twists, weighted crunches/sit ups/twists, saxon bends, etc.

I would also consider doing a couple sets of each exercise in a workout of 10-20 reps to failure after your regular max effort(low rep) sets.

 

[Hybrid_Killer]

Once you start getting strong and you learn how to deal with weights come back and we'll talk about powercleans, snatches etc. BTW does anybody else love doing lighter weight push press and trying to throw the weight as high as you can with leg drive?

About that, what'd be a good way to teach myself movements like the powercleans and snatches? I've tried learning from videos and it doesn't work for me because you can't see the intricacies of the technique...

 

[takeahnase]

Mmmm... Ok, but how could I develop explosive power then?

For beginners, the best way to become more explosive is to become stronger in the sense of max strength. There's little point in using 50% of your max for fast doubles/triplets if the 50% amount to 80lbs.

 

[takeahnase]

About that, what'd be a good way to teach myself movements like the powercleans and snatches? I've tried learning from videos and it doesn't work for me because you can't see the intricacies of the technique...

Try to find somebody who knows them to teach you. If you know nobody, try via progression, e.g. Hang Pull -> High Pull -> Jump Shrug -> Power Clean -> Clean
or OHS -> Hang Snatch -> SG Jump Srug -> Power Snatch -> Snatch

 

[spiral]

Ok, thanks for your advice everybody. Here is what I'll do:

-----------------------------------------
5x5 80% 3mn rest

Day one:
Deadlift
Overhead press
Weighted pullup/chinup
Full Contact Lift

Day two:
Squat
Benchpress
Bent over row
Good mornings
------------------------------------------

Now for another question:

Would high reps training have a negative impact on explosive or pure strength for me?
To be more precise: I do two to three times a week something roughly like this:

50 crunches
10 pull ups
30 push ups
10 chin ups
start all over again...

I've been told that training like this improved the muscles "resistance", but impaired explosive strength (or something like this...). I'm well aware that in my case (i.e. beginner) this will hardly have any effect on my strength, but for the sake of knowledge and starting things correctly, how many times a week should I do such kind of "resistance bodyweight training" in your opinion? (that is, if there actually should be some limit).

Also, about grip training, I already do some, but I'm unsure about what kind of exercise is the best for judo. I would tend to think that keeping a handle closed for a certain amount of time is the right way to go, since it kind of "simulate" what happen in Judo, but I might as well be totally wrong.

Again, thanks for your advice and patience in reading all of this. ^^

 

[Hybrid_Killer]

Ok, thanks for your advice everybody. Here is what I'll do:

-----------------------------------------
5x5 80% 3mn rest

Day one:
Deadlift
Overhead press
Weighted pullup/chinup
Full Contact Lift

Day two:
Squat
Benchpress
Bent over row
Good mornings
------------------------------------------

Now for another question:

Would high reps training have a negative impact on explosive or pure strength for me?
To be more precise: I do two to three times a week something roughly like this:

50 crunches
10 pull ups
30 push ups
10 chin ups
start all over again...

I've been told that training like this improved the muscles "resistance", but impaired explosive strength (or something like this...). I'm well aware that in my case (i.e. beginner) this will hardly have any effect on my strength, but for the sake of knowledge and starting things correctly, how many times a week should I do such kind of "resistance bodyweight training" in your opinion? (that is, if there actually should be some limit).

Also, about grip training, I already do some, but I'm unsure about what kind of exercise is the best for judo. I would tend to think that keeping a handle closed for a certain amount of time is the right way to go, since it kind of "simulate" what happen in Judo, but I might as well be totally wrong.

Again, thanks for your advice and patience in reading all of this. ^^

As long as you have sufficient rest you will be fine. What "sufficient rest" is, is only something your body can tell you.

 

[DEVILsSON]

I would drop GMs and do Weighted Crunches instead. Or you can do GMs instead of Deadlifts some weeks.

As a whole you will probably be fine although if the bodyweight exercises are difficult for you then you will probably be weaker in your heavy strength training exercises.

 

[juanlawnmower]

Best.

First.

Post.

Ever.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Just keep it simple. Smashius gave good advice already. I believe you shuld use the 5x5 till yo get enough experience to know how your body responds.

Good joob since you made a good first post

 

[Q mystic]

As far as I'm concerned congugate periodisation is a bad idea for new lifters without constant supervision and coaching, form goes to shite and ego takes over when it comes to selecting weights.

IMO you'd be better off with a simple routine based around the exercises you suggested (not a bad selection although I feel overhead press is probably one of the single best things a grappler can work on), I'd reccomend you nick the two day routine out of the stickies and get to work. Look to slowly increase your weights and make steady progress while working on learning form. I like 5x5 but working triples for 5-8 sets is fun too.

Two day split:

Day one:
Deadlift
Overhead press
Weighted pullup/chinup

Day two:
Squat
Benchpress
Bent over row

Once you start getting strong and you learn how to deal with weights come back and we'll talk about powercleans, snatches etc. BTW does anybody else love doing lighter weight push press and trying to throw the weight as high as you can with leg drive?

WRT judo - I have plenty of friends who started much later than you, in fact Bubble boy on this forum trains judo and he's like in his 90s , your technique will be as good as you make it, work constantly on footwork and train as much as possible learn to grip fight properly and it'll come in time.

Your flexibility will only improve if you weight train properly (don't believe me go read 'stretching scientifically' by Thomas Kurz, actually if you want to improve your flexibility go do that anyway).

If you want to be good at judo I can't rave on about grip training enough, read the section in the FAQ and look to pick up some grippers and a sledge hammer, you'll find throwing people becomes much easier once you develop some wrist strength.

Nice. I will go with that shortly as well I think.

 

[sombo05]

Ok, thanks for your advice everybody. Here is what I'll do:

-----------------------------------------
5x5 80% 3mn rest

Day one:
Deadlift
Overhead press
Weighted pullup/chinup
Full Contact Lift

Day two:
Squat
Benchpress
Bent over row
Good mornings
------------------------------------------

IMO, for a beginner, that's (the 80%) too much. I predict either A) it's too heavy to make all the reps or B) you'll be so sore afterwards you'll want to quit. In my experience, the athlete gets more out of it in the long run by beginning with lighter weights for higher reps to learn the form. Technique is easier to learn this way.

Otherwise...TITS!
/obscure reference to South Park

 

[Bubble Boy]

Spiral, first thing from me: don't worry about your age.
There's been Olympic level judoka who started in their teens.
You're 24, and may never get to the Olympic skill level, but you can get very, VERY good starting at your age. Stick with it for 10 years and you'll reach the age at which I started!

The guys who know what they're talking about have set you up with a killer routine.
I think you're correct in wanting to get stronger to hold with the younger guys, as you get older. I think that's a very good tactic on your part. Also, try to have the best cardio too.

As per you crunches, push ups, pull ups, etc routine. Good idea. Research Ross Enamait for some other circuit training / explosiveness stuff. He's got some good routines.

Good luck old timer.

 

[Ranger]

It's never "too late" to start training (Martial Arts) BTW...

 

[younggunz]

squats, deads, oly lifts, axe swings....